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1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
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gsxr Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
Mitchell, your math is a little off. The fuel tank capacity of the wagon is 19.0 gallons. A quarter tank is 4.75 gallons. 180 miles on 1/4 tank would be 180 / 4.75 = estimated 37.9 mpg, not 45. Even adding 5% for the larger tires only brings it to 40mpg.

However as mentioned above, this is not an accurate gauge of economy... you must re-fill the tank at the pump to measure the exact quantity of fuel consumed. Even this could provide a skewed MPG number after only 180 miles. You really must drive through a full tank, measure the miles driven, and the amount of fuel put back in the tank.

I hate to burst your bubble, but also as mentioned above... "40mpg isn't physically possible in a 300D". At least not in real-world driving conditions, nor averaged over a full tank of fuel. You might be able to achieve near those numbers at a steady 40mph downhill with a tailwind over 50 miles, but that would not be real-world driving conditions.

Sad


(07-07-2009 05:45 AM)Night_Sailor Wrote:  Oh I understand why he is so optimistic about his fuel economy. He is trying to sell the car for $7000. His starting bid is $4000. Not one bidder. And he won't get one.

I'll offer you $1500 for a 40 mpg car. But I'll only pay you this amount times the actual fuel economy divided by 40. That will work out to $1200--that is my offer $1200, and that is probably too much given all the defects on the car.


Night Sailor,

It's not the same person... Mitchell posted this thread nearly a year ago, about a 1987 300D sedan. The person on eBay has a 1987 300TD wagon, and was just referencing this thread as "proof" that 40mpg is possible.

That said, this particular model is quite rare, only about 1500 were ever imported to the USA, and this particular car additionally has a number of very rare options. And, it was the last diesel wagon Mercedes ever imported to the USA, and the only W124 diesel wagon imported to the USA. It is totally different than the previous generation 300D/TD (W123 chassis, up to 1985) which have a lower value.

The opening bid of $4k is quite reasonable, even with the listed defects (requires mostly labor, not much in parts, to fix most of those items). For $1500 you'll get something like a VW diesel. The '87 300TD is an order of magnitude better car than any VW, period. I've owned many of both. Zero comparison.

Anyway - the 1987 300D (or 300TD) is capable of a legitimate 30-32mpg averaged over a few thousand miles.

Silent
Something else I forgot. I also have a 1993 300D 2.5T sedan (W124 with OM602 5-cyl turbo engine, smaller & more efficient than the OM603 6-cyl in the wagon). Sometimes it will indicate 180 miles on the trip odometer when the fuel gauge indicates 1/4 tank.

Since the sedan has a slightly smaller fuel tank (18.5 gal), on the surface this would seem to indicate 38-40mpg. However I always run my car to the reserve light each tank, fill it up, and track MPG in a spreadsheet. Despite the apparent 40mpg near the start of the tank, it has never exceeded 33mpg averaged over the 500-550 miles for the entire tank. This is further proof that you must average the MPG over a full tank to get a real-world result.


Cool
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2009 08:04 AM by gsxr.)
07-08-2009 07:19 AM
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Llew Offline
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Post: #12
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
(06-13-2008 07:50 AM)retmil46 Wrote:  
Hoyt7811 Wrote:Sounds great. Can you please explain what a "CCV" line means? I have an old 300sd and would love to add one of those bubble rs.
Thanks

CCV = Crankcase Vent, the hose running from the valve cover to the air intake, recycles all the blow by gases (and oil vapor) that get past the cylinder and valve seals back to the intake to be "recycled" Thur the engine. Essentially the same as the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) hose on a gas engine, except for the fact since our diesels don't pull a vacuum on the intake manifold, there's no check valve/restrict or in the valve cover - just a simple hose between two points.

One caveat - there is a LOT of oil vapor that gets carried over with the blow by gases. My bubblier jar is installed downstream of a Mann and Hummel Provent 200 CCV filter which strips out most of the oil vapor. These are filters made specifically to be installed in the CCV lines on upwards of 500 HP diesels, to strip out the oil vapor and keep it from being sucked into the intake manifold, where it can combine with soot to form hard gummy deposits that can choke off the air intake.

If you just install a bubbler jar in the CCV line, without some type of oil vapor filter arrangement ahead of it, your bubbler jar will end up condensing out all this oil vapor - you'll end up with an oily gooey mess inside the bubbler jar that won't evaporate much water.

Two places you can buy Provent 200 filters are Reliable Industries and Air Now Supply, should pop right up on a Google search. Also check out the forums on http://www.tdiclub.com for discussion on Provent filters - the VW TDI crowd are big believers in CCV filters.
I believe what you are referring to is a PCV, positive crankcase ventilation
07-09-2009 06:33 AM
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Friedolin2 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
(05-20-2009 02:09 PM)studebaker Wrote:  
(05-11-2009 08:26 PM)hellspcangel911 Wrote:  
(05-11-2009 02:59 PM)OM617 Wrote:  40mpg isn't physically possible in a 300D, even with the TrapOx gutted. A 190D 2.2 with a 5-speed manual will barely reach that, let alone a 300D with an extra 2 cylinders, a turbo, 800lbs extra weight and worse aerodynamics.

I suggest you get something like a G-TECH/Pro and verify your odometer accuracy.

I understand your skepticism and partially agree, but I have owned three 1987 300TD wagons, and all of them have gotten over 32mpg during my regular driving. Even when the car had 470,000miles on it (finally sold it at 492k) it was still getting over 30mpg. My grey one now is getting over 42mpg but thats because of a few tricks with the waste gate, injecors, tighter transmission shifting and differential.
Mind you, these have the 603 engines 6cyl 3.0 Turbo Diesel, so they aren’t exactly the same as the 300D, but his numbers are realistic. As far as you comparison with the 190D, the 2.2L in it did not have a turbo, but if you look at the 2.5D with the turbo the numbers are much closer. If you do not have a turbo, you aren’t getting 40mpg, please clarify your car specs.
As far as adding two stroke oil, its not needed, the basic composition of diesel, well, it’s a lubricant in itself, the extra oil is just harder on the turbo, cat and muffler by producing more soot.

I've driven Mercedes and VW diesels as well. You can not figure mileage accurately using the fuel gage method. It takes several fill ups using the miles divided by gallons used to get any kind of accurate measurement and you still need to verify speedo accuracy for proper measurement. Until then, it's just an optimistic guess.

I agree, and not only that, you need to start and end your fuel consumption check at the same fuel station and the same pump, preferably one where the ground slopes to the left (since you are fueling on the right side,) so as to be sure you get the tank as full as posiible every time. Then you have to average out over a thousand miles or two. This way my '87 300D Turbo averages 30 mpg and slightly better, depending on whether I drive in the suburbs, the Interstate (80 mph), what time of year it is, with or without A/C, whether I am by myself or have a fuller load etc. The manual says, if I remember correctly, that the car is rated at 29 mpg at 120 K/hr. with a 75% load. That's what mine used to do. Then, over time, my autom. transmission started to act up, which was solved by re-doing the vacuum lines and getting new control modules. The final vac. leak was in the EGR. When I stopped this leak, the A/T worked again perfectly (over 200,000 miles now) and the mpg inreased a bit too. I just love this buggy. Got new brakes, new tires, the original R-12 Freon A/C still works perfectly, as does the radio. A year ago it got a new radiator an lower hose and I h
ad to replace the alternator a couple of weeks ago. At age 82 it suits me to a 'T' and it will be the last car I own. :-)
04-09-2011 03:36 AM
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bbfao Offline
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Post: #14
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
Time for a bump to the top. I have a 300td and plan on putting an hho bottle on it, with the results I have had in the past I should be able to see results way above the 45 mpg mark. With the diesel its so much easier to use, and that much more efficient for my drive everyday. I will let you all know what it does when I get my results.
08-08-2011 05:52 PM
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Friedolin2 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
[quote='retmil46' pid='4591' dateline='1213341634']
This car was originally rated 25/30 by the EPA, under the new formula 22/27. Top speed of 125 mph from the factory, it was the fastest production diesel car in the world when new.

Acquired her 2 years ago used, in need of a good bit of TLC at 132K miles.

Prior to April this year, my maintenance efforts were devoted more toward reliability - oil and fuel leaks, new shocks and struts, brakes and rotors, etc. At that time she was knocking down 30 mpg combined.

In April, the tranny was pulled for seal replacement (leaking 1 quart every two weeks). At the same time, the flex discs and center support bearing for the driveshaft were replaced, and the throttle and tranny control linkages were adjusted per the FSM.

End result of this was an increase of 5 mpg, up to 35 mpg combined.

Recent additions were a water vapor injection bubbler jar in the CCV line, going from 195/65R15 to 205/70R15 tires (1 1/4" larger diameter), replumbing the supply to the fuel pump, and adjusting the doseage of my fuel additive.

This week, bubbler jar is running plain water with no heat. Fuel pump supply replumbing resulted in 1 1/2 psi increase in pressure to the injection pump. I had been adding 1 oz/gallon TC-W3 2 stroke engine oil to the fuel, increased this to 2 oz/gallon this tank. Larger tires cause the odometer to read 5% low, and the speedometer to read 1 mph low for every 20 mph - I run at 52 indicated for 55 mph, engine speed reduced by 200 to 300 rpm.

Refilled the tank this past Sunday once these final four mods were in place. Full mark to 3/4 tank is 4 gallons. So far commuting to work this week, for 160 miles actual, fuel gauge is still above 3/4 tank with daylight between the needle and the mark - less than 4 gallons used for 160 miles.

Previous best to 3/4 tank was 140 miles, refilling after 200 miles for the week hand calculated to 35 mpg average for the tank. With 160 miles and still some to spare before the 3/4 mark, this is pointing so far to a 40 mpg average for this tank.

This isn't out of line with what I've heard - that when new, with MB's original attempt at a trap oxidizer (ie, cat) gutted out, these cars would achieve 38 mpg highway with stock tires.

And I've yet to pull and service those 20 year old injectors with new nozzles, or install an HHO generator.

This 20 year old mechanically injected diesel is bloody near getting what a Honda Civic Hybrid is capable of.

Sounds wonderful, BUT, you need to learn how to do a more accurate fuel consumption check.
For one, you may think you have a full tank and still be a gallon short. Next you need to check consumption over longer distances. Here is how I did it. I go to my favorite fuel pump and park the car on the same spot where there is a hump in the surface, tilting the car slightly away from the pump. Doing it again the same way gives me a pretty accurate ESTIMATE of how much fuel I used. I did this on a round trip from Atlanta to NY, over 2,000 miles. I then divided the number of gallons I used into the distance I had driven and came up with a little over 30 mpg for my 1987 300D Turbo.
Strangely I did this twice with our '98 E320 and came up with similar fuel consumption figures. Either the E320 is in superb condition, or as you say, there is a lot of improvement to be done for Diesel. In the standard configuration I get at best 32 mpg, but the average for suburban and Interstate driving seems to be just 30 mpg. :-) By the way my book says that the '87 300D Turbo was rated at 120 kph at 29 mpg. I believe that this is also based on carrying a 75% load.
08-09-2011 04:58 AM
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07-29-2012 03:35 AM
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nevinlee Offline
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Post: #17
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
40 mpg is not possible in a 300d even with the trapox gutted.A 190d 2.2 with a 5 speed manual will barely reach that.
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12-19-2012 07:46 PM
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(This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 08:53 PM by airjordanshoes7.)
05-30-2013 08:44 PM
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Mushimushi Offline
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Posts: 1
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Post: #19
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
[quote='OM617' pid='28704' dateline='1242082752']
40mpg isn't physically possible in a 300D, even with the TrapOx gutted. A 190D 2.2 with a 5-speed manual will barely reach that...

I consistently averaged 42 mpg in my '84 190D 2.2 5-speed w/no mods and a tired 360k miles. I always drove it easy and never got deep into the throttle, because it wouldn't make it go any faster anyway. I tried 'hyper-miling' techniques (coasting to stops and downhills, etc) and averaged 49 mpg per tankfull using the tried/true method of dividing miles driven by gallons used. Not too shabby but everyone else on the road HATED me! - people need to chill-the-f*ck-out when behind the wheel.
You don't need a Prius or any ridiculously expensive new car to achieve 40+mpg.
09-26-2013 09:21 PM
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drive-h2o Offline
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Post: #20
RE: 1987 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel - 40 MPG
Merc is a merc beautifull car. Realiable car. Here in EU old merc 123 or 124 are 700-3000 dolars. Awsome car.
09-27-2013 08:09 AM
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