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2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
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splatman2 Offline
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Post: #1
Big Grin 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
I put this in a 2008 Ford Focus trunk. Working so far. I think what might be happening is the Vacuum is strong enough to strip the bubbles right off the cell plates to give space for more hho to be created. What fantastic production there is under vacuum. The real nice thing is the Blox are staying at a very level low temp.
The sad thing is I don't know how to measure the lpm of these Blox under vacuum but it's alot more then there 2lpm rating.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4_v5w8qMM
The quality isn't the best. I'll be making another video of it soon.

"The Boy has no patience" Yoda
"He will learn patience. Was I any different when you taught me?" Obi-Wan
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2008 09:31 PM by splatman2.)
10-22-2008 06:54 AM
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howiemandel Offline
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Post: #2
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
Vacuum Rocks. Been trying to spread the word on this and other forums since day one.
10-22-2008 07:34 AM
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Delray Dude Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
howiemandel Wrote:Vacuum Rocks. Been trying to spread the word on this and other forums since day one.


While this may be true, but there is very little to no vacuum when accelerating a vehicle and way less while cruising than idling (especially in neutral or park) - just get a vacuum guage and watch it.

I would be concerned with the drop off of the HHO under acceleration due to the vacuum drop off, causing an extreme lean condition when the engine does not need that to happen - especially if using an EFIE - as the computer will still see the altered O2 signal and not have the corresponding HHO actually in the system.

1993 Mustang LX
2.3 Liter engine
5 speed manual
8.8 GT axle with 2.71 gears
Smack Design Booster
EFIE currently set at .25
Without HHO was getting 24-25 MPG
Best result with HHO : 29.5 MPG
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2008 09:50 AM by Delray Dude.)
10-22-2008 09:46 AM
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howiemandel Offline
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Post: #4
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
Without expressing scientific data, here are facts and how they are related to what I belive.

Same Generator hooked up to the vehical, testing:
After 100 miles:

Vacuum: Cool to the touch. can put hand on it and keep it there. Engine heat will make you move first.
AirBox: Extremely WARM to HOT to the touch. Impossible to lay your hand on it for more then a few seconds.

Vacuum: 12 Miles Per Gallon Increase over Normal mileage.
Airbox: 6-7 miles per gallon increase over Normal Mileage.

Vacuum: Never a cel light. (no need for any electronics. just 9 bucks total cost for my generator, 12MPG gains)
Airbox: Cell light problems, on again, off again. Tried to prevent problem, cuz i wasnt buying into the electronics sides of it. So tried everythign i could, including vacuum.

Vacuum: On this, and about every other forum where this comes up, folks using it, have bigger gains, and no, to low cel light problems.
AirBox: Folks using this tend to get some gains, however the VAST MAJORITY tend to have to buy sensor mods to receive any type of gain whatsoever.

Vacuum: While it cant be proven, im convinced that hho in a state of vacuum is at a higher state. I know it effects it. I also believe there is a continous circulation at the plates thus creating more HHO in a state of vacuum. I believe this.
Also, being in a state of vacuum, your created hydroxy gets to the source QUICKLY. In comparison, how much quicker do you think the vacuum hydroxy gets to the source, and at more volume? Atomospheric? Or Vacuum.

Vacuum is clearly the winner here. However, if your not intrested in it, thats fine. I tested for almost 5 months before I came to this conclusion. I certainly did NOT just say, nahh i think this is better. I say it cuz i believe it is.
10-22-2008 10:31 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #5
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
howie, the cel is probably the reason your mileage suffers when not using vacuum. What's the code?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
10-22-2008 02:34 PM
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Zolar1 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
While vacuum does increase MPG, it's most likely that you are pulling water vapor into the mix.

A cell will produce about the same amount of gas with or without vacuum.

You are VERY lucky. Every vehicle I put a cell on gets great MPG, but for about 50-60 miles, then it's back to normal.

Before using an EFIE, try an O2 sensor extender. It's much cheaper.

Also, try using a 'TEE' in your cell line. One end to the manifold, the other to the airbox after the air filter. Any vacuum you get would be reasonably constant, regardless of throttle position.

I am researching a way to make an inverse relationship between the TPS and the MAP sensors. As TPS signal voltage the MAP voltage increases would be reduced.
Anyone got a suggestion?
10-22-2008 05:06 PM
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splatman2 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
howiemandel Wrote:Without expressing scientific data, here are facts and how they are related to what I belive.


Vacuum is clearly the winner here. However, if your not intrested in it, thats fine. I tested for almost 5 months before I came to this conclusion. I certainly did NOT just say, nahh i think this is better. I say it cuz i believe it is.

I'm with you there Howie I believe it also. You and 4aday made me a believer. Vacuum. Now I'm not against using the airbox as well. Even on another cell running to it. But using the Mag pipe and the 2 blox it's working fine. Now as far as water vaper goes I dont have any or any chance of any getting to the engine. I have the container which has 1 extra plate before exit out hose goes to the front. It cuts down on the splashing and some vapor. Then the long hose all the way up to the front it gets to the engine compartment and goes to a dryer/old bubbler then out and into a copper tube which draws heat from the exaust manifold (Heating up the HHO) then up to the Mag pipe then into the engine vacuum. So I think we can rule out vapor. But hey things do happen that we can't see. So far on the latest run we have went from 25mpg to 29mpg and no other mods and CEL. Now the 29mpg was with lots of extra weight in town and hwy.(Moving) Backend was a low rider most of the trips. So bad 1 time we had to stop as the tires where rubbing in the wheelwells. lol. So this next 2 or so tanks should tell us something I hope more. 1st tank should be done by Sat night. Well post results.
Have Fun & Play Nice

"The Boy has no patience" Yoda
"He will learn patience. Was I any different when you taught me?" Obi-Wan
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2008 09:30 PM by splatman2.)
10-22-2008 09:29 PM
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ghahai ghato Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
Great job detailing out the vacuum results there howie... the best I've seen so far!
I've got a guy here who swears over the vacuum way with datas to show too!
I have great respect for people who keep proper records of things...

My cell is being conditioned at the moment and I'm still acclimatizing the car to my new hacked EFIE setup... Can't wait to try the vacuum trick...

Keep up the good work!!!
10-22-2008 09:59 PM
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Delray Dude Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
Zolar1 Wrote:While vacuum does increase MPG, it's most likely that you are pulling water vapor into the mix.

A cell will produce about the same amount of gas with or without vacuum.

I agree with you, and I'm not saying the vacuum thing is a bad deal to others,or trying to insult them. I'm glad they are getting good results but I feel that they are getting wator vapor (or steam) into the engine.

Think about it. Engine vacuum at idle is anywhere between 14 to 20 inches of mercury, depending upon the load of the engine. Deceleration or coasting produces up to and over 25 inches of mercury - heck normal constant speed, vacuum is anywhere between 10 to 15 inches of mercury.

If you take any vacuum guage, and try to suck it down (like a straw) most humans can't pull more than 5-7 inches of mercury. I'm sure all of us has done some sort of siphoning in their life, so you know it's not too difficult to get liquid to move with a little effort.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the vacuum an engine produces could pull liquid through the tubes (no matter what length) through them. Water does steam at a relatively low temp - taking a warm shower will prove that. Combine the vacuum with some reasonable container with latent engine compartment heat and a fine steam could easily be sucked into the system - giving a nice boost in power.

Also remember, applying vacuum to a container LOWERS the boiling point of water (and increasing pressure raises the boiling point - that's why radiator caps increase pressure to 14-18 PSI), so the water solution's boiling point is reduced and much easier to vaporize the water - which would increase the "gas" bubbles! This would explain certain temp drops in the above mentioned cells. Steam can be produced at a much lower temp, and almost instantly removed from the cell (via the vacuum), transferring the heat produced by the cells into the "steam" and off to the engine at a much lower temperature - working much like a radiator pulls the heat out of an engine.

The more I think about it, I think I'm gonna build a water container, mount it in the engine compartment to get the latent engine heat, and run it directly to the intake vacuum, with no HHO producing capability and record my results. Heck if it is good enough, maybe that would be the easier solution to MPG gains, with no wiring?!?!?

That may explain why some report no CEL while applying to the vacuum side - I've seen many a car with a blown head gasket where the water/antifreeze was leaking (ever so slightly to a full blown steam) into the combustion chamber and the CEL failed to light - well until the temp rose due to the lack of water in the cooling system.

1993 Mustang LX
2.3 Liter engine
5 speed manual
8.8 GT axle with 2.71 gears
Smack Design Booster
EFIE currently set at .25
Without HHO was getting 24-25 MPG
Best result with HHO : 29.5 MPG
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2008 04:09 AM by Delray Dude.)
10-23-2008 03:24 AM
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Delray Dude Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 2 Hydroblox Under Vacuum
Zolar1 Wrote:Also, try using a 'TEE' in your cell line. One end to the manifold, the other to the airbox after the air filter. Any vacuum you get would be reasonably constant, regardless of throttle position.


One thing to consider:

If you T into both sides - you are putting a bypass directly around the throttle plate and would most likely throw off the the MAP/MAF readings and lower the intake vacuum and mess the computer's data and might throw it into open loop. if you do this, mabe a one way check valve installed to the airbox side of the tee would be a good idea (dunno - just thinking here) that way the vacuum is still solid on the post throttle plates and when vacuum drops upon acceleration in the intake and picks up in airbox side - the HHO flows through that side.

1993 Mustang LX
2.3 Liter engine
5 speed manual
8.8 GT axle with 2.71 gears
Smack Design Booster
EFIE currently set at .25
Without HHO was getting 24-25 MPG
Best result with HHO : 29.5 MPG
10-23-2008 04:00 AM
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