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2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #1
2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
2007, Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Trans. with a topper and rack.
I use 4 cells, serries/parralell, made of Marine SS Cable and water filter housings. 4Tbspns / gallon of BS to Distilled water. A bubbler and an air/water seperator. PWM=Yes. EFIE = YES.
No HHO= 19-20 MPG @ 70 MPH w/ A/C on.
Only HHO(No EFIE, Etc.) = 23 MPG @ 70 MPH w/ A/C on.

Hi Guys, I'm back and glad to see there was a solution to the A/F sensor. I bought Mikes new EFIE for the Taco and have it installed.
Click Here: To see my first thread with all the details of my system.
My current issues lie with the EFIE settings. Idle (or any sustained RPM) drops with less than a quarter turn of the pot. The engine begins to stumble and progresses worse but no codes until today.
Let me back up: I added a line (hose) with a petcock valve (adjusted to barely cracked open) to the manifold to improve scavenging during idle since the main line feeds into the tuner air box via a ventury port that only works when there is flow. This feature allowed me to turn the EFIE pot a bit further at idle while maintaining a decent idle. At this point I could barely maintain idle quality with a quarter turn. Any adjustment beyond that was deadly.
Now, I've got my Mac Scanner on the truck and trying to make any sense out of any of the readings and, well forget it. The fact that the computer learns and adjusts makes what you see on the scanner, useless for the most part.
Today, I get an interesting scenario. I locked the TPS to about 2500 RPM's and started adding and removing the Gen. and/or EFIE to note the changes. Note that I wired it up so I cannot turn the EFIE on with the HHO Gen. off. The truck finally coded. Did I finally get my badge of honor?????
Of coarse not! I got Rich codes.
P0172B = Bank1 System is too rich
P2196 = O2 sensor signal stuck rich

As I go CW with the pot and allow the computy to adjust, the engine's load % goes up! and the injectors get fatter and fatter and fatter!
I quit drinking, so it aint that!
WTF! Help me out guys.
BTW, Yes, I got the right wire. On my truck, A1A+ is connected to the blue sensor wire on the A/F sensor and it has higher (3.3v) voltage of the two. I am tapped into it.

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
04-04-2009 03:35 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #2
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
Just for kicks, I switched it to the other wire and there is no response.
Now what?

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
04-04-2009 05:39 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
(04-04-2009 03:35 PM)AIR_WIZZ Wrote:  2007, Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Trans. with a topper and rack.
I use 4 cells, serries/parralell, made of Marine SS Cable and water filter housings. 4Tbspns / gallon of BS to Distilled water. A bubbler and an air/water seperator. PWM=Yes. EFIE = YES.
No HHO= 19-20 MPG @ 70 MPH w/ A/C on.
Only HHO(No EFIE, Etc.) = 23 MPG @ 70 MPH w/ A/C on.

Hi Guys, I'm back and glad to see there was a solution to the A/F sensor. I bought Mikes new EFIE for the Taco and have it installed.
Click Here: To see my first thread with all the details of my system.
My current issues lie with the EFIE settings. Idle (or any sustained RPM) drops with less than a quarter turn of the pot. The engine begins to stumble and progresses worse but no codes until today.
Let me back up: I added a line (hose) with a petcock valve (adjusted to barely cracked open) to the manifold to improve scavenging during idle since the main line feeds into the tuner air box via a ventury port that only works when there is flow. This feature allowed me to turn the EFIE pot a bit further at idle while maintaining a decent idle. At this point I could barely maintain idle quality with a quarter turn. Any adjustment beyond that was deadly.
Now, I've got my Mac Scanner on the truck and trying to make any sense out of any of the readings and, well forget it. The fact that the computer learns and adjusts makes what you see on the scanner, useless for the most part.
Today, I get an interesting scenario. I locked the TPS to about 2500 RPM's and started adding and removing the Gen. and/or EFIE to note the changes. Note that I wired it up so I cannot turn the EFIE on with the HHO Gen. off. The truck finally coded. Did I finally get my badge of honor?????
Of coarse not! I got Rich codes.
P0172B = Bank1 System is too rich
P2196 = O2 sensor signal stuck rich

As I go CW with the pot and allow the computy to adjust, the engine's load % goes up! and the injectors get fatter and fatter and fatter!
I quit drinking, so it aint that!
WTF! Help me out guys.
BTW, Yes, I got the right wire. On my truck, A1A+ is connected to the blue sensor wire on the A/F sensor and it has higher (3.3v) voltage of the two. I am tapped into it.
Great gains without the EFIE. With EFIE you should get even more mpg. Sounds like you don't have it connected right; thoroughly review the install instructions and retrace each and every installation step.
04-04-2009 08:56 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
(04-04-2009 03:35 PM)AIR_WIZZ Wrote:  My current issues lie with the EFIE settings. Idle (or any sustained RPM) drops with less than a quarter turn of the pot. The engine begins to stumble and progresses worse but no codes until today.

That's exactly what the first generation wb efie's did. Current versions do this at half-rotation and future ones may be closer to 3/4 turn.

The stumble is your clue it's waaay too lean. When testing preliminary versions, there were times my Toyota was undrivable b/c it was too lean and since there was no on/off switch, I had to pull the plug to drive home.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
04-05-2009 06:31 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #5
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
Hi Air_Wizz,

Yes, 1/4 turn is probably too much. Carefully back it off from there. Your idle should not be struggling at all, or you're just too lean.

Our first EFIEs underestimated their own ability to affect the AFR. Those first units add 5 milliAmps to the sensor current pump wire when the adjustment pot is turned fully clockwise. We found no one ever was able to use even 1/2 turn on the pot. So our more recent circuit boards only go up to 3 milliAmps max. The point is that a tiny addition of current has a large effect.

The other point is that 1/4 turn being too much is not an odd phenomena at all. You probably need to set it at 1/8 or some such. Your data also suggests that you DO have it on the correct wire.

If you're getting rich codes, you probably have the EFIE turned up too high. The EFIE simulates a rich condition to get the computer to compensate back towards lean.

The other possibility is that you need to treat the downstream sensor(s) with a narrow band EFIE. This has been coming up more and more lately, where the downstream sensors are also being used to adjust the air/fuel ratio. You can write in to support@fuelsaver-mpg.com and have your vehicle looked up to see if anything is said about your downstream sensors being used for AFR calcs, but we've found many times they are used, but no mention of it is made in our database. Anyway, this is the last thing to try, once you have explored the correct setting, and still get the same codes.

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04-06-2009 08:36 AM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
(04-06-2009 08:36 AM)mike Wrote:  Hi Air_Wizz,

Yes, 1/4 turn is probably too much. Carefully back it off from there. Your idle should not be struggling at all, or you're just too lean.

Our first EFIEs underestimated their own ability to affect the AFR. Those first units add 5 milliAmps to the sensor current pump wire when the adjustment pot is turned fully clockwise. We found no one ever was able to use even 1/2 turn on the pot. So our more recent circuit boards only go up to 3 milliAmps max. The point is that a tiny addition of current has a large effect.

The other point is that 1/4 turn being too much is not an odd phenomena at all. You probably need to set it at 1/8 or some such. Your data also suggests that you DO have it on the correct wire.

If you're getting rich codes, you probably have the EFIE turned up too high. The EFIE simulates a rich condition to get the computer to compensate back towards lean.

The other possibility is that you need to treat the downstream sensor(s) with a narrow band EFIE. This has been coming up more and more lately, where the downstream sensors are also being used to adjust the air/fuel ratio. You can write in to support@fuelsaver-mpg.com and have your vehicle looked up to see if anything is said about your downstream sensors being used for AFR calcs, but we've found many times they are used, but no mention of it is made in our database. Anyway, this is the last thing to try, once you have explored the correct setting, and still get the same codes.

Mike is clearly doing his home work and paying attention in class!
1/4 turn seems to be my threashhold. I can go just beyond that with out any drivability problems; however, after some driving, I get [O2 sensor B1S2 voltage too low.] As you suggested, a downstreem EFIE is eminent. [/size]
Refresh my memory guyz, the O2 EFIE can add voltage to my O2, right?
I have a home built EFIE, I could just hook it up backwards.
Any advise or experiences to offer about adjusting these in coincert would be highly appreciated!!!!!!!

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
04-15-2009 06:22 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
If you're talking about the post-cat o2's, your narrow band efie (ZFF?) can be connected to them.

Raising the o2 voltage (higher at the ecu than the sensor) will result in a leaner mixture. You'd hook it up normally, not reversed. Reversed was the solution for AFR's, that we found out didn't work.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
04-15-2009 01:32 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
(04-15-2009 01:32 PM)colchiro Wrote:  If you're talking about the post-cat o2's, your narrow band efie (ZFF?) can be connected to them.

Raising the o2 voltage (higher at the ecu than the sensor) will result in a leaner mixture. You'd hook it up normally, not reversed. Reversed was the solution for AFR's, that we found out didn't work.

I got it, The regular EFIE adds voltage to fool it into thinking it is richer than it is.

Have you tried this yet?

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
04-15-2009 01:45 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
Correct.

No I haven't. I no longer have my Toyota (since last fall). My current vehicle is a hybrid and still under warranty.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2009 01:56 PM by colchiro.)
04-15-2009 01:55 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 2007 Toyota Tacoma HHO, EFIE, PWM
Do you know if any one else has posted on their experiences with this type of setup?

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
04-15-2009 02:00 PM
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