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25% By Weight NaOH?
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retmil46 Offline
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Post: #1
25% By Weight NaOH?
I've got my initial test rig ready to go. I've made a 7 series cell "brick" from Lowes SSTL blank switch plate covers - +NNNNNN- . Following the advice in the Hyzor manual, I'm suspending the plates such that the top 1" is above the water level. The end plates and electrical connections/brackets are coated with liquid electricians tape, and the gaps between the sides and bottoms of the plates are filled in with ultrabalck RTV and coated again with liquid electricians tape, leaving a 1/8" hole at the bottom of each plate altenating so that liquid can flow up in between the plates - this to get rid of unwanted "shorts" and force all the current to flow thru the cells.

The Hyzor manual recommends using NaOH for electrolyte, mixing 25% by weight with distilled water. I have a bottle of Roebic drain cleaner from Lowes, but I'm at a loss as to converting what would be 25% by weight for powdered lye into a liquid volume for the Roebic cleaner for the proper 25% mix to a gallon of distilled water.Confused

Anyone have any idea what liquid volume of Roebic cleaner would meet this requirement?

Right now, I have the brick installed in a 1/2 gallon square Rubbermaid plastic container for testing. With approximately 1/3 of a gallon of distilled water, I added 7 capfuls of Roebic cleaner to experiment with.

With a Schumacher manual 6 amp battery charger, it was supplying 15 volts to the terminals and 2 amps on the charger's ammeter. I had some visible/audible leakage around the hose fitting in the lid, but still measured 0.15 lpm output at 2 amps.

With an old riding lawnmower battery installed in the circuit (holds good voltage but very little amp capacity), the charger settled on 3 amps and 15.4 volts output. After a few minutes, you could see whute foam building up and then collapsing above the exposed tops of the plates. Gas output best I could measure was roughly 0.2 lpm.

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville NC
'87 MB 300D Turbodiesel
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD (Common Rail Diesel)
10-26-2008 06:00 PM
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hygear Offline
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Post: #2
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
retmil46 Wrote:I've got my initial test rig ready to go. I've made a 7 series cell "brick" from Lowes SSTL blank switch plate covers - +NNNNNN- . Following the advice in the Hyzor manual, I'm suspending the plates such that the top 1" is above the water level. The end plates and electrical connections/brackets are coated with liquid electricians tape, and the gaps between the sides and bottoms of the plates are filled in with ultrabalck RTV and coated again with liquid electricians tape, leaving a 1/8" hole at the bottom of each plate altenating so that liquid can flow up in between the plates - this to get rid of unwanted "shorts" and force all the current to flow thru the cells.

The Hyzor manual recommends using NaOH for electrolyte, mixing 25% by weight with distilled water. I have a bottle of Roebic drain cleaner from Lowes, but I'm at a loss as to converting what would be 25% by weight for powdered lye into a liquid volume for the Roebic cleaner for the proper 25% mix to a gallon of distilled water.Confused

Anyone have any idea what liquid volume of Roebic cleaner would meet this requirement?

Right now, I have the brick installed in a 1/2 gallon square Rubbermaid plastic container for testing. With approximately 1/3 of a gallon of distilled water, I added 7 capfuls of Roebic cleaner to experiment with.

With a Schumacher manual 6 amp battery charger, it was supplying 15 volts to the terminals and 2 amps on the charger's ammeter. I had some visible/audible leakage around the hose fitting in the lid, but still measured 0.15 lpm output at 2 amps.

With an old riding lawnmower battery installed in the circuit (holds good voltage but very little amp capacity), the charger settled on 3 amps and 15.4 volts output. After a few minutes, you could see whute foam building up and then collapsing above the exposed tops of the plates. Gas output best I could measure was roughly 0.2 lpm.


25% by weight works out to 1 lb. to 1/2 gallon of distilled water

2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Quadcab 4x4 5.7 hemi
10-26-2008 07:37 PM
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retmil46 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
hygear Wrote:
retmil46 Wrote:I've got my initial test rig ready to go. I've made a 7 series cell "brick" from Lowes SSTL blank switch plate covers - +NNNNNN- . Following the advice in the Hyzor manual, I'm suspending the plates such that the top 1" is above the water level. The end plates and electrical connections/brackets are coated with liquid electricians tape, and the gaps between the sides and bottoms of the plates are filled in with ultrabalck RTV and coated again with liquid electricians tape, leaving a 1/8" hole at the bottom of each plate altenating so that liquid can flow up in between the plates - this to get rid of unwanted "shorts" and force all the current to flow thru the cells.

The Hyzor manual recommends using NaOH for electrolyte, mixing 25% by weight with distilled water. I have a bottle of Roebic drain cleaner from Lowes, but I'm at a loss as to converting what would be 25% by weight for powdered lye into a liquid volume for the Roebic cleaner for the proper 25% mix to a gallon of distilled water.Confused

Anyone have any idea what liquid volume of Roebic cleaner would meet this requirement?

Right now, I have the brick installed in a 1/2 gallon square Rubbermaid plastic container for testing. With approximately 1/3 of a gallon of distilled water, I added 7 capfuls of Roebic cleaner to experiment with.

With a Schumacher manual 6 amp battery charger, it was supplying 15 volts to the terminals and 2 amps on the charger's ammeter. I had some visible/audible leakage around the hose fitting in the lid, but still measured 0.15 lpm output at 2 amps.

With an old riding lawnmower battery installed in the circuit (holds good voltage but very little amp capacity), the charger settled on 3 amps and 15.4 volts output. After a few minutes, you could see whute foam building up and then collapsing above the exposed tops of the plates. Gas output best I could measure was roughly 0.2 lpm.


25% by weight works out to 1 lb. to 1/2 gallon of distilled water

Good lord - that sounds as if I could pour the whole bottle of liquid Roebic cleaner in there and still wouldn't be close!Shocked

But that does sound like it's in the right direction. Initially I added just two capfuls to the container. Even on the 6 amp setting, the charger barely registered any current.

I then added 3 more capfuls, total of 5. That kicked the ammeter up to just over 1 amp.

While trying to seal around the leaks in the lid, I added two more capfuls, total of 7, and ended up with the results in my first post.

Cell spacing is 0.160". On the last run, close to an hour, container was just getting to be slightly warmer to the touch than ambient.

If nothing else, picked up a can of Drano crystals at Wally World tonight. At least they give you equivalent measurements on the can - 1 tablespoon = 30 grams.

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville NC
'87 MB 300D Turbodiesel
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD (Common Rail Diesel)
10-26-2008 07:54 PM
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hygear Offline
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Post: #4
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
[

25% by weight works out to 1 lb. to 1/2 gallon of distilled water
[/quote]

Good lord - that sounds as if I could pour the whole bottle of liquid Roebic cleaner in there and still wouldn't be close!Shocked

But that does sound like it's in the right direction. Initially I added just two capfuls to the container. Even on the 6 amp setting, the charger barely registered any current.

I then added 3 more capfuls, total of 5. That kicked the ammeter up to just over 1 amp.

While trying to seal around the leaks in the lid, I added two more capfuls, total of 7, and ended up with the results in my first post.

Cell spacing is 0.160". On the last run, close to an hour, container was just getting to be slightly warmer to the touch than ambient.

If nothing else, picked up a can of Drano crystals at Wally World tonight. At least they give you equivalent measurements on the can - 1 tablespoon = 30 grams.





[/quote]

Yeah I know it sounds like a lot,but that's the same ratio I use.I buy koh in 2 lb bottles and use 1 bottle per gal. distilled.
Btw don't use draino not a wise choice,if you're going to use Naoh buy Red devil lye instead.If you can't find it at Lowes or H/D Ace hardware carries it.I use koh and buy from SALTCITYSOAPWORKS.COM cost is $7.45 for 2 lbs plus shipping.

2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Quadcab 4x4 5.7 hemi
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2008 05:51 AM by hygear.)
10-27-2008 05:46 AM
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Zolar1 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
I have had problems when using too much (AKA the 'recommended amount') electrolyte. All I got was a LOT of dishwater-like foam on the top.

I diluted the mix by 1/2 and started getting normal production again.
10-27-2008 06:18 AM
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hygear Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
Zolar1 Wrote:I have had problems when using too much (AKA the 'recommended amount') electrolyte. All I got was a LOT of dishwater-like foam on the top.

I diluted the mix by 1/2 and started getting normal production again.




It all depends on what type cell design,number of of plates,plate size and plate configuration,not to mention the different types of electrolytes.There're no standard one size fits all ratio of electrolyte to distilled water.

2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Quadcab 4x4 5.7 hemi
10-27-2008 06:53 AM
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hydrotinkerer Offline
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Post: #7
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
You have to take in account the liquid roebic is half as strong or diluted as the crystal.
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2008 06:56 AM by hydrotinkerer.)
10-27-2008 06:56 AM
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retmil46 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
Thanks for the input guys. Sounds as if I'm on the right track - not enough NaOH in the mix as of yet. Just got a little concerned after reading how some were only adding one or two tablespoons, and here I was adding 7 capfuls of roebic to 1/3 gallon and only pulling 2 amps/0.2 lpm.

Basically what I'm building is the Smack design as far as the main components (plates, housing, etc), but heavily modified such that it's incorporating all the design criteria from the Hyzor manual - 7 series cells, 1/8" plate spacing, electrically isolated plates, etc.

So far, the results look to be in line with what's quoted on the ER website for specs on the Basic Hyzor kit - 7.5 lph/0.13 lpm at a range of 1 to 2.5 amps. I e-mailed George back in May and he confirmed that's what the basic kit is set up to produce "out of the box" so to speak without any user mods.

I'm probably getting better results than I would with straight DC right now thanks to the old-fashioned battery charger I'm using - no electronics, just a transformer and most likely a half-wave rectifier, charge rate determined by which voltage tap off the transformer you have selected. From my previous experience with electric vehicles, that's going to give a very choppy DC waveform, still having a large AC component to it - in essence, something of a middle ground between pure DC and a PWM.

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville NC
'87 MB 300D Turbodiesel
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD (Common Rail Diesel)
10-27-2008 08:11 AM
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ptours99 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
retmil46 Wrote:Thanks for the input guys. Sounds as if I'm on the right track - not enough NaOH in the mix as of yet. Just got a little concerned after reading how some were only adding one or two tablespoons, and here I was adding 7 capfuls of roebic to 1/3 gallon and only pulling 2 amps/0.2 lpm.

Basically what I'm building is the Smack design as far as the main components (plates, housing, etc), but heavily modified such that it's incorporating all the design criteria from the Hyzor manual - 7 series cells, 1/8" plate spacing, electrically isolated plates, etc.

So far, the results look to be in line with what's quoted on the ER website for specs on the Basic Hyzor kit - 7.5 lph/0.13 lpm at a range of 1 to 2.5 amps. I e-mailed George back in May and he confirmed that's what the basic kit is set up to produce "out of the box" so to speak without any user mods.

I'm probably getting better results than I would with straight DC right now thanks to the old-fashioned battery charger I'm using - no electronics, just a transformer and most likely a half-wave rectifier, charge rate determined by which voltage tap off the transformer you have selected. From my previous experience with electric vehicles, that's going to give a very choppy DC waveform, still having a large AC component to it - in essence, something of a middle ground between pure DC and a PWM.
you're doing to get different results when it's installed in the car.those numbers you've registered are going to go up more than you think cuz 12volts is lower production than 13.8 volts [car alternator].see if you can borrow a dc power station from someone they run at 13.8volts.

selling an enclosure for the rear of cab semi truck 28''X20''X6'' CUSTOM MADE ALUMINUM TO HOUSE HHO GENERATORS AND INCLUDING A RESERVOIR BUBBLER AND REGULAR BUBBLR ptoures@sbcglobal.net usa only
10-27-2008 04:06 PM
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retmil46 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 25% By Weight NaOH?
ptours99 Wrote:you're doing to get different results when it's installed in the car.those numbers you've registered are going to go up more than you think cuz 12volts is lower production than 13.8 volts [car alternator].see if you can borrow a dc power station from someone they run at 13.8volts.

Actually, the battery charger I was using was putting out 15 volts to the terminals on the container.

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville NC
'87 MB 300D Turbodiesel
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD (Common Rail Diesel)
10-27-2008 10:09 PM
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