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4-wire oxygen sensors?
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mark_t Offline
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Post: #1
Question 4-wire oxygen sensors?
I have discovered a disturbing coincidence... Smile Well, it seems that a lot of reports on the web say that 4-wire sensors are difficult, if not impossible, to figure out. And I need to figure out how to fix one.

Im not much if a mechanic, but this is the way I understand i.t
When a 4-wire oxygen senser makes its current or whatever, there is a special circuit inside the engine computer/ECM that reads this current. The ECM then sorta makes a voltage.

So when a lot of EFIE boxes try to mess with the voltage, the ECM says, uh-uh, no way pal. I am the one who makes voltages around here, not you.

And so the ECM ignores the voltage made by the efie. The way I have seen it explaind is that the voltage is just there for mechanics to read, and the ECM could care less about reading voltages.

Now, here is some 4-wires I have heard about. it sounds like Toyota and LExus use them... like in a 1999 ES300 (3.0 liter I think). They call them AFR sensors. Then there is Chrysler, who uses them in the Hemi. I've heard of a lot of problems with the Ford F150, but maybe that's MAP sensors or something. I dont even know if you guys mess with those.

So can someone tell me wether these things work or not. I need to know aboit the Lexis mainly but maybe someone else could benifit.

TIA,
Mark
03-30-2009 10:18 PM
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John Sargent Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
(03-30-2009 10:18 PM)mark_t Wrote:  I have discovered a disturbing coincidence... Smile Well, it seems that a lot of reports on the web say that 4-wire sensors are difficult, if not impossible, to figure out. And I need to figure out how to fix one.

Im not much if a mechanic, but this is the way I understand i.t
When a 4-wire oxygen senser makes its current or whatever, there is a special circuit inside the engine computer/ECM that reads this current. The ECM then sorta makes a voltage.

So when a lot of EFIE boxes try to mess with the voltage, the ECM says, uh-uh, no way pal. I am the one who makes voltages around here, not you.

And so the ECM ignores the voltage made by the efie. The way I have seen it explaind is that the voltage is just there for mechanics to read, and the ECM could care less about reading voltages.

Now, here is some 4-wires I have heard about. it sounds like Toyota and LExus use them... like in a 1999 ES300 (3.0 liter I think). They call them AFR sensors. Then there is Chrysler, who uses them in the Hemi. I've heard of a lot of problems with the Ford F150, but maybe that's MAP sensors or something. I dont even know if you guys mess with those.

So can someone tell me wether these things work or not. I need to know aboit the Lexis mainly but maybe someone else could benifit.

TIA,
Mark

The wideband AFR efies sold here on Fuelsavers work, Mark. I have two of them, one each on my 2007 Honda Accord and 2005 Honda Civic, which means that they will work on Lexus as well, since Honda makes Lexus.
03-31-2009 03:10 AM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
There's some reading material on wide band (AFR) sensors and Mike's wide band efie in my Documents link.

Last I heard Toyota makes Lexus Wink but Honda and Toyota use a similar system.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2009 03:36 AM by colchiro.)
03-31-2009 03:35 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
Hi Mark,

For the record, there are narrow band sensors and wide band sensors. Either kind can have 4 wires. Most narrow band sensors have 4 wires. These work on voltage, and an EFIE can modify these voltages successfully.

The wide band sensors work on a current, and narrow band style EFIEs don't work on them, basically for the reasons you state. The ECU is reading current on a 4-wire wide band.

John Sargent is correct. Our wide band EFIEs will work well on your Lexus. I looked up your sensors and you have 2 AFRs upstream of the catalytic converter. You will need to treat both of these sensors. Our wide band EFIE is a Dual, meaning it will treat 2 sensors. You can get them from our online store.

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03-31-2009 07:39 AM
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mark_t Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
that be good!

How about that Hemi? I found out that someone i know has a 2007 Dodge Ram pickup, and i think the hemi engine is a v-8 5.7 litre. oh, it's a 1500 pickup.

Like i said before, i had heard that it has a wideband afr or oxygen sensor like the Lexus. not too sure how many sensors he has, but i hope it's just 2 like the Lexus. i am thinking about buying mine today some time, or having the other guy order on-line.
Thanks, Mike. i am full of questions today. Smile but am i right about what I said about the voltage? I mean like this... isn't it the current and not the voltage, which is why the other efie's (not yours) dont work on a wideband 4-wire? I heard that people buy an efie and then get sort of mad when it doesn't work, and then after some long discussion the other people say, well, your car does this and that... haha.

I think the this and that haha explanations I have seen don't make sense to me. That's why i have the idea that when an efie changes the voltage from 3.0 to 3.1 on a 4-wire, the car just doesn't care. it is watching current, not voltage. Am I right, Mike? You feed the car a current and leave the voltage alone and so the car is tricked.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2009 09:15 AM by mark_t.)
03-31-2009 09:06 AM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
Hi Mark. Many of the Dodge's have a 5 wire o2, which works with either efie, but much better with the wb model. Bruce can look that up for you, given all the nasty details on the vehicle.

There's been a lot of so-called wb efie's available online, but when they change just the voltage and can't handle the current, they end up having the opposite effect that we want (so yes, you are correct). So far, Mike's is the only one confirmed to be a true wide band efie.

Mike is correct, 4 wire o2's have been around for a number of years and can go either way.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
03-31-2009 01:04 PM
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John Sargent Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
(03-31-2009 03:35 AM)colchiro Wrote:  There's some reading material on wide band (AFR) sensors and Mike's wide band efie in my Documents link.

Last I heard Toyota makes Lexus Wink but Honda and Toyota use a similar system.

Rick, I stand corrected. Thanks, :>)
04-01-2009 03:15 AM
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RonT Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
Dual wideband EFIE does not work
I have a 2000 Impala 3.8 using two Brute Force HHO units. I have two 4 wire O2 sensors, one front and one back. Three weeks ago I had NEW oxygen sensors installed in front and rear.
At the front sensor connector my readings are 4.98 v, 4.57 v, 11.76 v and .37 mv.
I was instructed to tap into the 4.98 v wire, not cutting it. I plugged it into my Dual wideband EFIE. Starting at adjusting the pot at the counter clockwise stop, then to 1/4 , then 1/2, then full clockwise to the stop. The engine NEVER even hinted at stalling.

Not wanting to burn the valves I set it at 50 percent and drove it over 200 highway miles and AVERAGED 24.7 mpg whereas on a 6000 mile trip around the country last year I AVERAGED 26.5 mpg.

Today I set the pot at 100 percent with no stalling and I will run it for 50 miles to check the milage again but I expect no change.
run it for 50 mile test but I do not expect a different outcome.

DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS???

THANKS
RON
04-05-2010 01:02 PM
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koya1893 Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
first let me depend the comment about the dual wide band does not work. MY 2009 F-150 have fooled Mike and everyone in his shop except for Bruce. at first we thought it was narrow then come to find out it was the first Ford put WB in front. Okay in order for the WB to yield you gain you must address the post cat O2 as well. My 2009 F-150 with 5.4 flex fuel now gets 18.6 mpg city 24.8 mix driving. Let me tell the power and silky smooth accel, well Ford would love to do this to all their truck. The setting are as follows: WB set at 10' o clock, post cat at 285mv.

I did not see in your post where you stated how you are handling the post cat O2.

Another WB working: 2005 Scion set at 9 O' clock position, post cat at 150mv. city 39mpg mix 45pmg the car is not driven on the highway so I don't have data. By the way you need to meet the .5 lpm per 1 liter of engine. The F-150 I am inducing 3 lpm. The Scion 1.5lpm.
04-07-2010 03:49 PM
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RonT Offline
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RE: 4-wire oxygen sensors?
(04-07-2010 03:49 PM)koya1893 Wrote:  first let me depend the comment about the dual wide band does not work. MY 2009 F-150 have fooled Mike and everyone in his shop except for Bruce. at first we thought it was narrow then come to find out it was the first Ford put WB in front. Okay in order for the WB to yield you gain you must address the post cat O2 as well. My 2009 F-150 with 5.4 flex fuel now gets 18.6 mpg city 24.8 mix driving. Let me tell the power and silky smooth accel, well Ford would love to do this to all their truck. The setting are as follows: WB set at 10' o clock, post cat at 285mv.

I did not see in your post where you stated how you are handling the post cat O2.

Another WB working: 2005 Scion set at 9 O' clock position, post cat at 150mv. city 39mpg mix 45pmg the car is not driven on the highway so I don't have data. By the way you need to meet the .5 lpm per 1 liter of engine. The F-150 I am inducing 3 lpm. The Scion 1.5lpm.


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04-20-2010 01:02 PM
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