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43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
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sax88player Offline
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Question 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
I did my first test with my generator last night. it is a 21 plate set up with 316 grade stainless steel distilled water with almost a 1/4 tbspn of sodium hydroxide as an electrolyte. I'm using an EFIE I bought from here that was set at a starting point between 130 and 150 (fluctuated up as it warmed up and stopped around 150). I did 86 miles on 2 gallons of freeway driving... not a bad start since I have plenty of room to increase the offset.

What I'm confused about is even though I have 316 grade stainless my water still turns into a orengy yellow color with a red cloud like substance in it after it settles. It did that much faster and more severally in my last generator with lower grade stainless, I but I though I would have very little trouble with that after switching to the 316.

First of all, what is it? is it created by the electrolysis after the generator gets warmed up? ( it seems to happen faster as it heats up)

Secondly, does it produce a toxic chemical that is being mixed with the hho gas that goes into my motor?

Lastly, will it decrease production if I just keep running it when it gets really bad? (or cause any other really bad side effects like destroy my plates)
10-31-2008 10:47 AM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
Howdy! Maybe I can provide some assistance to your cry for help.

1. What are you using for electrolyte? If it's not NaOH or KOH and distilled water, you know I'm going to scream at you, right? Tongue

2. The water will turn that copper brown color and have some muck on the bottom of the case, guaranteed. It's just something that comes with playing around with your gen, it's because it's not cleaned completely. Don't worry, it happens to all of us and will go away after about a month of use (change water a couple times).

3. Make sure that whenever you work with your gen (assembly, etc.) that you wear rubber (or nitrile if you're allergic to latex like I am) gloves. I found that when wear these, even though they could be a inconvenience at times, they really help speed up the clean water process. It's been two weeks since my last build and no brown stuff yet! Big Grin

4. Check connections for corrosion or a short. Maybe even rip the gen apart and see if you can spot a black mark where there could have been a short circuit. That causes a LOT of problems, but it's always worth checking if you're even SLIGHTLY unsure about your gen build.

I hope this was helpful! Also, try to post pics or vids of your setup and generator, that could help us out a lot. Thanks for being part of this huge group effort and keep up the good work!



And latex is bad. VERY bad!!! *boycotts latex*

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11-02-2008 09:48 PM
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sax88player Offline
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RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
thanks for you help. I'm going to try that acrylic container. I was at walmart the other day and saw what I think you are talking about It has a lid that is latched on with metal strap that goes around the top and of the container right? I didn't see acrylic on there anywhere, but If that is what it is then sweet.

What do people use to seal the holes that the positive and negative posts come through that still allows them to take it apart and work on?
11-02-2008 10:26 PM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
sax88player Wrote:thanks for you help. I'm going to try that acrylic container. I was at walmart the other day and saw what I think you are talking about It has a lid that is latched on with metal strap that goes around the top and of the container right? I didn't see acrylic on there anywhere, but If that is what it is then sweet.

What do people use to seal the holes that the positive and negative posts come through that still allows them to take it apart and work on?

Yeah, that's just the container I'm talking about! It has two layers of plastic on the lid so I drilled a huge hole on the inside top and now it's just a one layer like normal. I also use 1/4" rubber grommets from ACE ($.25 each) with 1/4" SS washers on either side of the pos and neg to tighten the top and seal it securely. I also use the same grommet for the 1/4" hose outlet. Works like a charm every time!

My Car:
2006 Toyota Solara 2.4L 4cyl.
-Aftermarket (JPP) header
-DNX exhaust
-Injen Short-Ram Intake (SRI)

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11-02-2008 10:38 PM
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ptours99 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
sax88player Wrote:I did my first test with my generator last night. it is a 21 plate set up with 316 grade stainless steel distilled water with almost a 1/4 tbspn of sodium hydroxide as an electrolyte. I'm using an EFIE I bought from here that was set at a starting point between 130 and 150 (fluctuated up as it warmed up and stopped around 150). I did 86 miles on 2 gallons of freeway driving... not a bad start since I have plenty of room to increase the offset.

What I'm confused about is even though I have 316 grade stainless my water still turns into a orengy yellow color with a red cloud like substance in it after it settles. It did that much faster and more severally in my last generator with lower grade stainless, I but I though I would have very little trouble with that after switching to the 316.

First of all, what is it? is it created by the electrolysis after the generator gets warmed up? ( it seems to happen faster as it heats up)

Secondly, does it produce a toxic chemical that is being mixed with the hho gas that goes into my motor?

Lastly, will it decrease production if I just keep running it when it gets really bad? (or cause any other really bad side effects like destroy my plates)

did you actually do the cleaning process at all.if not check on the forum to see what should be done ,it is recommended to do this first.

selling an enclosure for the rear of cab semi truck 28''X20''X6'' CUSTOM MADE ALUMINUM TO HOUSE HHO GENERATORS AND INCLUDING A RESERVOIR BUBBLER AND REGULAR BUBBLR ptoures@sbcglobal.net usa only
11-05-2008 09:03 AM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
sax88player Wrote:I did my first test with my generator last night. it is a 21 plate set up with 316 grade stainless steel distilled water with almost a 1/4 tbspn of sodium hydroxide as an electrolyte. I'm using an EFIE I bought from here that was set at a starting point between 130 and 150 (fluctuated up as it warmed up and stopped around 150). I did 86 miles on 2 gallons of freeway driving... not a bad start since I have plenty of room to increase the offset.

What I'm confused about is even though I have 316 grade stainless my water still turns into a orengy yellow color with a red cloud like substance in it after it settles. It did that much faster and more severally in my last generator with lower grade stainless, I but I though I would have very little trouble with that after switching to the 316.

First of all, what is it? is it created by the electrolysis after the generator gets warmed up? ( it seems to happen faster as it heats up)

Secondly, does it produce a toxic chemical that is being mixed with the hho gas that goes into my motor?

Lastly, will it decrease production if I just keep running it when it gets really bad? (or cause any other really bad side effects like destroy my plates)

That "red stuff" is iron oxide, i.e. rust. It's eventually going to happen for 2 reasons. Stainless, yes even 316, is essentially iron, chromium, nickel and maybe a little bit of a few other metals; mostly iron. Electrolysis will always cause oxidation of the electrodes, unless you can afford gold or platinum. A quick way to get iron oxide in your generator is to use tap water which contains a lot of iron; so, always use distilled water which has no iron. Watch out for 302 stainless being sold as 316; I wouldn't trust any stainless from China. If you want to be as sure as sure can be use surgical stainless.

Resolve yourself to a daily check of your generator and a routine cleaning every time your electrolyte gets too brown. If you let it accumulate it falls to the bottom of the cell, builds up and eventually shorts your system. I had a stainless wire gen that was mounted in a fenderwell [out of sight; had no other room] and worked great for about 3 weeks until it exploded. It looked like blood was profusely gushing out of my left front wheelwell after what sounded like a pistol shot. I kept meaning to take it out and clean it but never got around to it; and, it was a real producer [2 lpm]. I've since learned wire is never the way to go; always use acrylic so you can see the bottom of your cell; use a reservoir system [easy maintenance] switch + and - connections every time you clean out your cell, and finally move up to a dry cell once you get the hang of HHO.
11-05-2008 11:18 PM
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sax88player Offline
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RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
What is a "dry cell" v.s. a cell that is submerged in distilled water with an electrolyte?

Actually, the last few times I have run my generator the water has stayed almost clear with no gunk in the water... Why did it randomly stop leeching out the "Iron".
11-06-2008 10:39 AM
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thomasbala Offline
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RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
sax88player Wrote:What is a "dry cell" v.s. a cell that is submerged in distilled water with an electrolyte?

Actually, the last few times I have run my generator the water has stayed almost clear with no gunk in the water... Why did it randomly stop leeching out the "Iron".

Sax88:

Looks like you did a good job making that cell; it would appear that your plates have become "conditioned", or, as you would say, "leached out". A dry cell pumps electrolyte through the plates minimizing any current leakage. I know someone is going to correct me and say it's not current [amps] but voltage that leaks in a "bath" cell. I think it's more current than voltage because you can increase the voltage all you want above 2 volts and you won't get any more production of HHO. Increase amps and you get a geometric increase in production. Attached is a pic of a dry cell. Once again, congradulations on a well built cell. How about some pics, data, like how many lpm HHO, amps, plate arrangement, etc.


Attached File(s)
.pdf  drycell.1.pdf (Size: 11.76 KB / Downloads: 56)
11-06-2008 04:26 PM
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sax88player Offline
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RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
How much effect does the amperage have on getting good milage? I have a tiny 1.5 liter motor so I'm sure that extra load can make a lot of difference in the overall milage... Plus I don't understand why I keep getting random inconsistent results... I just want to see some consistency... I go on the same 98 mile drive and I check my mileage... Is that not far enough to get a general idea of how i'm doing?

any advise is great : )
11-11-2008 11:50 PM
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gtkco Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 43 mpg toyota tercel... still confused? help?
Actually, I have done tests on rust bloom. I have conclusively proved (to me of course) that volts do impact the formation of bloom. That is not to say that amps, chemicals and heat don't but we should be aware that there is a relationship between volts and the rate of bloom. 12v seems to be the major offender and your system should not have that problem. I think that if your system is now running clear, you have conditioned your plates. For my discussion on volts and bloom see the link below.
http://www.fuel-saver.org/showthread.php...366&page=2
11-12-2008 05:23 AM
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