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57 MPG and increasing! (89 mpg update)
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wulfram Offline
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Exclamation 57 MPG and increasing! (89 mpg update)
I performed my first road test since I gutted my HHO gen and rebuilt it.
Here's the specs:
2 SS plates
Elect. Mix = 1 tablespn b.soda, 1 shot glass distilled white vinegar,
1/3 cup %70 isop.alcohol, 2 capfulls hydrogen peroxide.

Copper tubing for both lines (to PCV and Air intake BEFORE MAF).
Tin foil around O2 sensor (only 1 sensor)

Vehicle: 95 ford probe, 2.0L, 5 speed, 4 cyl. 180,000+ miles.

Result on yesterday's road test: 57 MPG! (coming from an original 28 before the gen, and up to 45 before the stainless steel plate mod, copper tubing, and new elect.mixture).

Just got my EFIE in the mail yesterday, will be installing it tomorrow and then will perform another road test to see if it increased.

May post pics soon.

that is all. Smile

-----------------------
NEW UPDATE MAY 5th

I understand the following may arouse intense disbelief, and am already prepared to be accused a liar (well, prepared in that - I don't really care ). For those who actually follow what I test with an open mind, here's for you.

Yesterday I embarked on a 680 mile interstate trip. I scrutinized my movements and adjustments as much as possible during the trip and performed 3 mpg tests. The terrain was mostly flat and straight with few curves.
Here are the mpg tests and adjustments as occurred:

1st test: Topped off tank, drove 61 miles. Topped of tank and took .978 gal to top off again. = 62.37 mpg
Adjustment made after: Opened bubbler valve 2 turns more to allow more outside air return to jar per vaccuum taken out.

2nd test: Topped tank, drove 78 miles. Took 1.07 gal to top off = 72.89 mpg .
Notes: Water level decreased to little above half full - thus original volume of baking soda reacts to less water present creating more gas.
Adjustment made after: Increased bubbler valve 1 more turn.

3rd test: Topped tank, drove 103 miles. Gas needle had barely budged and I became suspicous at 103 miles that gauge may had reacted badly to all these experiments. Pulled over exit at 103 miles and took 1.15 gal to top off tank. = 89.56 mpg!
Notes: Water level dropped a little below half full and more gas was being produced in greater volume - again I suspect because the same amount of baking soda was present in a lesser amount of water with the same amount of electricity available. If there are better theories out there, I would be very interested in to know how to continue duplicating these results.
Adjustment made after: opened bubbler valve more to compensate for the quickly depleting water supply.

Drove next 300 miles on under a quarter tank (I have a 15.5 gal tank)and stopped counting because I really needed to get to my destination on time.

Other observations: Drove no more than 70 mph and no less than 60 mph for whole trip (except for starts and stops at exits). After each adjustment and length of trip, less and less did I need to touch accelerator pedal to achieve same speeds. Eventually, I had to adjust to tapping the pedal on and off to prevent speeding.
Also, water ran out completely at around 80 miles left to go in the trip and I noticed because much more depression on accel pedal was required to achieve speed. (Soon stopped along road to pop the hood and confirm that this was correct and I was out of water)
Gas needle started to decline at normal rate thereafter.

Mods to be made: A quick-fill plug on the lid to remove and fill with pre-mixed electrolyte kept in trunk of car.
Habits to be made: Not filling jar all the way up. Not screaming at top of my lungs like an idiot at gas stations when learning about higher mpg (when I hit my 89 mpg, I lost it in laughter and whoops - got alot of concerned looks).


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(This post was last modified: 05-08-2008 05:04 PM by wulfram.)
04-27-2008 03:35 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
wow, that rocks!

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04-27-2008 06:25 PM
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wulfram Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
mike Wrote:wow, that rocks!

sure does. Smile

now, where can I acquire EFIE adjustment for dummies? Wink
I never dealt with electronics much until now and I'm learning everything as I go along. I've read all your document pages but am still lacking on the knowhow of adjusting by milvolts?
I bought a voltmeter today and it looks complicated (well, the figures and images on it, I know the internal logic of the device itself).
Is the Basic EFIE that I puchased already set, or do I need to adjust it from the start and work it around a bit?
04-27-2008 07:07 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
It should be preset to .2 volts (as measured using volts DC and the red probe in the red jack on the EFIE and the black probe in the black jack).

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
04-27-2008 07:26 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
colchiro Wrote:It should be preset to .2 volts (as measured using volts DC and the red probe in the red jack on the EFIE and the black probe in the black jack).

That's actually only marginally true. I don't preset them. But the factory adjusts the pot to about it's midpoint, and that usually comes out to about .200 volts. But this can vary quite a bit.

Wulfram, I kind of purposefully don't set them anymore so that guys will have to start out learning to set their EFIE right away. However, while it may seem complicated at first, you'll find it's very simple. You don't have to understand the electronics inside to adjust it either.

If you have a circuit board model, be sure to read the article, "Notes On Circuit Board & Basic EFIE Models". Instead of using the test ports on the Deluxe models, you'll take your readings from the white and green wires. You may want to make an easy way to access these for your future adjustments, such as a little bolt that connects to each wire on the outside of your kit box, or some such.

Anyway, if you run into trouble, we'll be here.

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04-27-2008 09:25 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
wulfram- I am just curious how your computer allowed your car to run so lean? This seems to defy all other info re: computers, thus the introduction of the EFIE. The purpose of the computer is to maintain stoich which should be around 14.7:1. My AFR meter, EFIE off, shows the "hunting" effect of reading lean-average-lean-average etc.. It will not allow the car to maintain lean.
I am just wondering if anyone else has gotten those results with just the HHO unit w/o the EFIE?
04-28-2008 06:30 AM
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wulfram Offline
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RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
rpatzer Wrote:wulfram- I am just curious how your computer allowed your car to run so lean? This seems to defy all other info re: computers, thus the introduction of the EFIE. The purpose of the computer is to maintain stoich which should be around 14.7:1. My AFR meter, EFIE off, shows the "hunting" effect of reading lean-average-lean-average etc.. It will not allow the car to maintain lean.
I am just wondering if anyone else has gotten those results with just the HHO unit w/o the EFIE?

I personally would be interested to hear more others speak up about mileage gains. For some reason, everyone is either shy, paranoid of disappearing, or taking the treasure and running?
I also am curious how my computer is allowing my car to run so lean (as I have not yet installed EFIE.. and it is raining out right now, so it may be a while until I find out the results when I do). It may be that I only have one O2 sensor and that it is very old, rusted and dirty?
I'm know mechanic, but I do know that when things start looking delapitated that they don't function as they should. Perhaps that could be possible? Either way, I don't care why it's working out for me - I'm thrilled to be getting nearly 60 mpg. Smile
04-28-2008 06:47 AM
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cstmwrks Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
wulfram Wrote:I performed my first road test since I gutted my HHO gen and rebuilt it.
Here's the specs:
2 SS plates
Elect. Mix = 1 tablespn b.soda, 1 shot glass distilled white vinegar,
1/3 cup %70 isop.alcohol, 2 capfulls hydrogen peroxide.

Copper tubing for both lines (to PCV and Air intake BEFORE MAF).
Tin foil around O2 sensor (only 1 sensor)

I have some questions about the science of what you put in the HHO generator. Did this mix come from another source on the web? Would this still work with KOH instead of baking soda? Is the acetic acid and peroxide do some thing other than alter conductivity? Alcohol does not conduct does it do more than act as an antifreeze in winter?
When you top off the system how do you know what to add? the iso is going to boil off.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2008 02:26 PM by cstmwrks.)
04-28-2008 02:22 PM
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tanahiro Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
well in my particular situation, i have a 2006 pontiac grand prix with 2 smack booster a efie. oxy extender, resistor in maf and iat and cts, and i see 0 gain. iam very dissap. all af this in which i decide to eliminate everything and put in the trash. my car right now is giving me only less than 180 mile in half tank.
04-28-2008 02:30 PM
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wulfram Offline
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RE: 57 MPG and increasing!
cstmwrks Wrote:I have some questions about the science of what you put in the HHO generator. Did this mix come from another source on the web? Would this still work with KOH instead of baking soda? Is the acetic acid and peroxide do some thing other than alter conductivity? Alcohol does not conduct does it do more than act as an antifreeze in winter?
When you top off the system how do you know what to add? the iso is going to boil off.

Yes, my mix came from another source on the web.
http://www.livevideo.com/byte312
I've been following this guy's progress for a while and I copied his mixture (with a few very minor modifications in measurement).
I've never used KOH. The vinegar and b.soda react to create acetate; this along with the alcohol help in the winter to prevent freezing. The alcohol is also good for the engine (think dry gas). When the gen get's down to 1/4 full, I throw out what's left and have a new 30 oz. mix ready to put in. I keep a pre-mixed container in my trunk for very long road trips (I trav. between 300-500 mi/week).

I recommend watching the vids in the link above.
04-28-2008 04:05 PM
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