Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
97 f150 new install
Author Message
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
97 f150 new install
Thought I would start a thread for my new install. After playing around with multiple configurations and designs and electrolytes etc I finally settled in on the Smack Booster. I also tried baking soda, sodium hydroxide, and vinegar.
1) baking soda and tap water ends up making mud after about a week. Hind sight is because of the iron in the water caused iron bloom that resulted with mud.
2) Sodium hydroxide and tap water really made me nervous using such a nasty chemical
3) Vinegar worked ok but it sure makes your eyes water when you open up the unit and I was not sure how much was truly hho.
4) Baking soda and distilled water. The brown mud was caused due to iron bloom and distilled water eliminated any iron in the water. Extended usage continues to run clean so have settled with baking soda and distilled water.

Started with 1 tbsp baking soda per gallon distilled water and watched my amps until it ran up between 10 and 12 amps.
Any additional water is important to add only distilled water. The baking soda stays in the generator, only the water is converted to hho. So as the water leaves, the amps will go up due to the higher concentration of baking soda. Add more distilled water.

installed 9/7/2008

1997 f150xlt 4.6 v8, extended cab, 6 ½ ft bed.
mpg for the last 8 years, 15mpg -16.5mpg, never any better
smack booster, 1 lpm
14amps

dual efie, start setting at .270 volts

I'll post updates as information becomes available.

MrBill

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
09-07-2008 12:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #2
RE: 97 f150 new install
I know it has been a while since I posted. My gains were not where I would like them to be. Actually, I am almost assuming the gains are due to the leaner fuel mixture instead of the HHO.
After checking my HHO output, it was only putting out 300ML per minute.
My 16.5 MPG, which is on the high side of where it has ever been, was a combination of city and highway. Whereas before, the 16.5mpg I had was all highway driving with cruise control set. So there is a gain, but pretty small. That is why I think it was due to the leaner fuel mixture.

I am building a dry cell generator. It is going to take some time to get it going but it should be massive. I have 36 plate of stainless steel 8x8. Subtracting the 1 inch gasket around the parameter will be 6x6 plates exposed to the electrolyte. I am not sure yet how many cells I will have it divided up to yet, whether it will be 4 or 5 neutral plates.
I am shooting for 4lpm.

Will post when I have new info.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2008 11:08 AM by mrbillr.)
10-05-2008 11:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: 97 f150 new install
I have switched out from a Smack to an 8x8 dry cell, 25 plates with 5 neutrals each.
It draws about 12amps cold and produces about 1.3lpm. I haven't bumped up the electrolyte yet. I wanted to see what a consistant 1lpm minimum would do.
I ran a test with the dual EFIE only and no HHO just to make sure the EFIE was doing its job. Then I added HHO to see what happens. The only test I haven't done yet is just the opposite, HHO without the EFIE. I can do that next.

Base line, before anything - 16mpg
zero HHO and EFIE at 270mvdc - 18.5mpg
1 lpm and EFIE at 270mvdc - 15.1mpg

As you can see, HHO makes the mileage go DOWN. That is not the direction I want it to go, obviously.
Maybe I need to tweak around the EFIE with some different settings?
Maybe a MAF device needs added since I have not done anything with it yet? It does not have a MAP, only a MAF.
I am almost getting to the point of frustration, but I am determined to make it work. Now that the gas price is down, I can afford to check the results. When it was at $4 bucks a gallon, I didn't want to drive around a test it, just for the sake of testing purposes.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
11-21-2008 05:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
grossemac Offline
Member
***

Posts: 1
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #4
RE: 97 f150 new install
i been trying to get this stuff to work, but keep hitting a wall, the latest is i installed a efie, following the ins. that came with the unit, hooked it to the map sensor, when i started it it ran real rough wouldn't idle, so i wired it back like it was and its fine----dick p.s. i have a 92 dodge Dakota 6
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2008 07:29 AM by grossemac.)
11-21-2008 06:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
thomasbala Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 629
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 4
Post: #5
RE: 97 f150 new install
[quote=mrbillr]

"Extended usage continues to run clean so have settled with baking soda and distilled water."

Mrbill:

Baking soda won't do. Upon electrolysis it produces carbon dioxide, CO2; yep, the same stuff that puts out fires in CO2 fire extinguishers. I'm assuming your F150 has a 4.6L engine [281 CID]. If so, you're going to need a lot more HHO to see any results. What you're seeing with the EFIE only, is an electronically produced lean mixture. When you add what you think is HHO, but really is a bad mix of H2, O2 and CO2, your mpg naturally goes down, the CO2 inhibiting combustion. I don't think you're going to see any results until you start pumping 2+lpm into that double overhead camshaft V8. Try citric acid, colorless Kool Aid will do to see if you like it.
11-21-2008 06:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #6
RE: 97 f150 new install
thomasbala Wrote:[quote=mrbillr]

"Extended usage continues to run clean so have settled with baking soda and distilled water."

Mrbill:

Baking soda won't do. Upon electrolysis it produces carbon dioxide, CO2; yep, the same stuff that puts out fires in CO2 fire extinguishers. I'm assuming your F150 has a 4.6L engine [281 CID]. If so, you're going to need a lot more HHO to see any results. What you're seeing with the EFIE only, is an electronically produced lean mixture. When you add what you think is HHO, but really is a bad mix of H2, O2 and CO2, your mpg naturally goes down, the CO2 inhibiting combustion. I don't think you're going to see any results until you start pumping 2+lpm into that double overhead camshaft V8. Try citric acid, colorless Kool Aid will do to see if you like it.


Actually, the baking soda went away a couple months ago. That was what I started with back in September with the Smack(Posted by mrbillr - 09-07-2008 03:19 PM), I have been using NaOH now in the dry cell. I got clear up to about 10 tablespoons of baking soda and decided I needed to quit going down that path. NaOH I have about 2 teaspoons per gallon of distilled water.
If you will read my post, the lean mixture is exactly what I was reporting:
Quote:Base line, before anything - 16mpg
zero HHO and EFIE at 270mvdc - 18.5mpg
My post was stating that with the EFIE doing its job, the HHO made it go back down.
Quote:1 lpm and EFIE at 270mvdc - 15.1mpg
So I probably needed to persue other avenues.
My dry cell is huge and I have lots of room to increase production. It has 25 plates 8x8, 5 neutrals each. So I could about triple or more the output with no problems. (see attached)
The 97 f150 does not have a MAP. It has a MAF. So I was looking at maybe adjusting that some, since I need more than just the EFIE.
Still on my journey moving forward.


Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
   

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
11-22-2008 02:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
thomasbala Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 629
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 4
Post: #7
RE: 97 f150 new install
MrBill:

That's one fabulous looking dry cell. You should be getting more than 1 lpm out of that well crafted piece. I'm not a cell builder by any means but it looks like you have very little space between plates; space makes a big difference in production. Rethink your design; the area you have exposed to electroolyte should be more than sufficient. I know your problem is insufficient HHO. I went through pulling my hair out trying to make a 3.0 V6 work on 1 lpm. It became an obsession with me. One day I got so PO'd I changed my circuit breakers to 40 amps and turned my PWM on full blast. I could see the anger erupt through the plexiglass in my bath cell and a pleasant surprise on the interstate from my ScanGauge; went from ~31 mpg on level highway, 60 mph, 2000 rpm to ~41 mpg, same conditions. The solder was dripping off the PWM it was so hot. Eureka: insufficient HHO; no gain. Keep at it. There are some really proficient cell builders on this site; hope one of them posts what you need to do to that work of art dry cell to make it produce 3+ lpm HHO. Good Luck
11-22-2008 04:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #8
RE: 97 f150 new install
thomasbala Wrote:MrBill:

That's one fabulous looking dry cell. You should be getting more than 1 lpm out of that well crafted piece. I'm not a cell builder by any means but it looks like you have very little space between plates; space makes a big difference in production. Rethink your design; the area you have exposed to electroolyte should be more than sufficient. I know your problem is insufficient HHO. I went through pulling my hair out trying to make a 3.0 V6 work on 1 lpm. It became an obsession with me. One day I got so PO'd I changed my circuit breakers to 40 amps and turned my PWM on full blast. I could see the anger erupt through the plexiglass in my bath cell and a pleasant surprise on the interstate from my ScanGauge; went from ~31 mpg on level highway, 60 mph, 2000 rpm to ~41 mpg, same conditions. The solder was dripping off the PWM it was so hot. Eureka: insufficient HHO; no gain. Keep at it. There are some really proficient cell builders on this site; hope one of them posts what you need to do to that work of art dry cell to make it produce 3+ lpm HHO. Good Luck

Thanks for the kind words. This cell has 25 plates 8x8 of 20 gauge food grade SS with .080 gasket spacing. My original electrolyte was 2 teaspoons per gallon. I checked my amperage last night and it was running 5 amps to produce the 1lpm. I did just as you suggested you did yourself, I started dumping in NaOH. I started with 1 teaspoon, then another which only go it up to 9 amps. I then put in a tablespoon more, which the conversion charts say is 3 teaspoons. So now I am up to 7 teaspoons or abour 2 1/2 tablespoons and my amperage is up to 23 amps. The bubbles in the bubbler are rolling out of there. I did a quick production test and it is somewhere around 2 lpm cold. I am pushing the limit on my 25amp circuit breaker.
I have 2 hot wires going to the cell. I have all the extra parts laying around, so I am going to put a 25amp circuit on each positive lead to the cell. I have some monster wire that I can use to come from the battery. The cell will then be able to handle up to 50amps.
As you said, I am not to the PO'ed state yet, but I am on a mission.

<update 11/23>
OK, the 2 positive wires each have their own 25amp circuit breaker and fuse. My dry cell has 25 plates with 5 neutrals each so there are actually 4 cells in the total unit. Each wire is drawing 11.9amps with the truck running is 13.5volts at the cell for a total amp draw of 23.8amps. That makes it about 6 amps per cell. Production test now is 11 seconds to fill a 500ml bottle. I am up to 2.7 liters per minute now.

8.49 MMW

Now to do some driving and do another mpg test.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2008 09:09 AM by mrbillr.)
11-23-2008 06:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
tonyc860 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 115
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #9
RE: 97 f150 new install
(11-23-2008 06:11 AM)mrbillr Wrote:  
thomasbala Wrote:MrBill:

That's one fabulous looking dry cell. You should be getting more than 1 lpm out of that well crafted piece. I'm not a cell builder by any means but it looks like you have very little space between plates; space makes a big difference in production. Rethink your design; the area you have exposed to electroolyte should be more than sufficient. I know your problem is insufficient HHO. I went through pulling my hair out trying to make a 3.0 V6 work on 1 lpm. It became an obsession with me. One day I got so PO'd I changed my circuit breakers to 40 amps and turned my PWM on full blast. I could see the anger erupt through the plexiglass in my bath cell and a pleasant surprise on the interstate from my ScanGauge; went from ~31 mpg on level highway, 60 mph, 2000 rpm to ~41 mpg, same conditions. The solder was dripping off the PWM it was so hot. Eureka: insufficient HHO; no gain. Keep at it. There are some really proficient cell builders on this site; hope one of them posts what you need to do to that work of art dry cell to make it produce 3+ lpm HHO. Good Luck

Thanks for the kind words. This cell has 25 plates 8x8 of 20 gauge food grade SS with .080 gasket spacing. My original electrolyte was 2 teaspoons per gallon. I checked my amperage last night and it was running 5 amps to produce the 1lpm. I did just as you suggested you did yourself, I started dumping in NaOH. I started with 1 teaspoon, then another which only go it up to 9 amps. I then put in a tablespoon more, which the conversion charts say is 3 teaspoons. So now I am up to 7 teaspoons or abour 2 1/2 tablespoons and my amperage is up to 23 amps. The bubbles in the bubbler are rolling out of there. I did a quick production test and it is somewhere around 2 lpm cold. I am pushing the limit on my 25amp circuit breaker.
I have 2 hot wires going to the cell. I have all the extra parts laying around, so I am going to put a 25amp circuit on each positive lead to the cell. I have some monster wire that I can use to come from the battery. The cell will then be able to handle up to 50amps.
As you said, I am not to the PO'ed state yet, but I am on a mission.

<update 11/23>
OK, the 2 positive wires each have their own 25amp circuit breaker and fuse. My dry cell has 25 plates with 5 neutrals each so there are actually 4 cells in the total unit. Each wire is drawing 11.9amps with the truck running is 13.5volts at the cell for a total amp draw of 23.8amps. That makes it about 6 amps per cell. Production test now is 11 seconds to fill a 500ml bottle. I am up to 2.7 liters per minute now.

8.49 MMW

Now to do some driving and do another mpg test.

how did you make out?

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
01-05-2009 06:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #10
RE: 97 f150 new install
The F150 is being cantankerous. With everything I have done, I can’t get back to where I was last year before I started messing with it. I am about ready to turn everything off and run a little to see if my mpg will go back to 16.2mpg hiway as in the beginning. I am getting tired of the 14-15mpg with everything I have done.
After watching the Bob Boyce videos last month, he is pumping the HHO to a 2008 f150 and getting it up to 25mpg. So I decided to crank that 8x8 dry cell of mine up and pour the HHO into my truck, thinking the v8 needs a lot more HHO than what I have been providing. Still jack squat.
I got some more tricks up my sleeve. I’ll let you know when (not if) I get my break through.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
01-05-2009 09:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)