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Alternative to EFIE??
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rickster Offline
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Post: #1
Alternative to EFIE??
This guy claims efie is not efficient, and his ECU is much better, AND, can be used on wide-band motors!! He seems to think we need to run around 18:1 A/F mixture; that sounds awfull lean to me; anyone here familiar?
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/September%202008.html
09-12-2008 08:25 AM
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uberhho Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
so I hear that 17.2:1 is 'scotch' for 'HHO guys.'
02-19-2009 10:42 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
Sorry, I can't vote for any solution that recommends unplugging the o2 sensor.

"We instruct our customers to simply unplug the oxygen sensor to be able to change the air/fuel ratio."

That does break the EPA laws.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
02-20-2009 04:59 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Alternative to EFIE??
I run with the o2 unplugged: it's the only way I can get the mileage with HHO and no EFIE. But it's only 4-6 mpg on a 100hp motor. I don't know what it would do with an EFIE.
02-21-2009 01:33 PM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Alternative to EFIE??
But you appear to know what you're doing Wink, understand the risks and probably have equipment to monitor changes.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
02-21-2009 08:19 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
No, I don't have an EGT on her. If I did, I'd probably do the usual thing and add an EFIE. (if I could afford it right now - Not.)
I've pumped from about 1.5L/min and now going under 1L in this experiment. She isn't getting as good at 1L as she was, but that's probably winter blend, and the cold.
02-22-2009 11:30 AM
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mattsauto Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
(02-21-2009 01:33 PM)Gary Wrote:  I run with the o2 unplugged: it's the only way I can get the mileage with HHO and no EFIE. But it's only 4-6 mpg on a 100hp motor. I don't know what it would do with an EFIE.

Gary,
let the 02 sensor feed it's own signal to the ECU for at least 5min for every 0.5hr of engine operation...WHY?? -> this will "burn-off" any "contamination" in the CAT and keep it "healthy" ... Just to save some $$$, that you don't have to burn down the road...
02-26-2009 05:55 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
That may well be a good idea to try out...I'll have to put another switch in. Now, I've just tried my new 4N2 cell starting at about 40 amps (2+L/min) and dwindled down to 5 amps by diluting it tank by tank and I can't get anywhere near the mileage I had before with the 1L cell last summer.
02-26-2009 06:49 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
(09-12-2008 08:25 AM)rickster Wrote:  This guy claims efie is not efficient, and his ECU is much better, AND, can be used on wide-band motors!! He seems to think we need to run around 18:1 A/F mixture; that sounds awfull lean to me; anyone here familiar?
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/September%202008.html

Thanks rickster.

I read the article. Really there are too many incorrect assumptions in that article to list them all. Some of the main points:

1) NO2 will only go down if the AFR is 18:1 or so. Actually the NO2 goes up dramatically when you go above 14.7:1. You can look at the graph he displays and see that.

2) We're not trying to lean the mix anyway with an EFIE. What happens is that when HHO is added, more oxygen appears in the exhaust, causing the computer to compensate by adding more fuel. The HHO causes a false "lean" condition that the computer must compensate for. The computer actually makes the mix rich. The EFIE is just used to compensate for this factor so that the mix won't be rich. If you measure the exhaust of a car that has HHO and an EFIE, properly set, the sensor will read a "lean" air fuel mix. But that's only because you have got better combustion going on, and that combustion improvement causes the oxygen sensor to "see" a leaner condition than actually exists. In actual fact a properly set EFIE with a good HHO device will reduce emissions across the board.

Also, I'm not sure what he means when he says you should run at 18:1. A properly set up HHO device and EFIE may well read 18:1 when measured with an oxygen sensor. However, even though an expensive and accurate air/fuel ratio sensor is used, it will still use an oxygen sensor to infer the air/fuel ratio, and even though it will read 18:1, the mix will actually be closer to 14.7:1.

3) Most cars with oxygen sensors disconnected will go into open loop and will give horrible fuel mileage.

4) Narrow band sensors (which are also known as lambda sensors), and wide band sensors utilize completely different technologies for communicating the air/fuel ratio to the computer. Narrow band sensors use a voltage, whereas the wide band sensors vary a current. That's why a different type or device is needed to modify the signal.

I don't slam people trying to get new products out that help people get better mileage. I'm sure the author is trying to improve the situation by coming up with a universal solution to all oxygen sensors. But I'm this particular article is based on some incorrect assumptions on how the sensors and electronics work.

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(This post was last modified: 03-03-2009 08:38 AM by mike.)
03-03-2009 08:31 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Alternative to EFIE??
I have a chart somewhere, that shows you can run as rich as 10:1 for racing, but only about 17:1 before burning up a motor.
03-03-2009 05:16 PM
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