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Baffled????
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apexpred Offline
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Post: #1
Baffled????
Hello,

New to the forum.

Thought I'd share my VERY limited experience. I'm not mechanically inclined at all so please bear with me. Don't have any clues about what my amperage draw is or the operating temp of my HHO unit.

Vehicle: 2002 Nissan Frontier SE Crew Cab

74K miles , 3.3 liter , auto, 2 wheel drive

Purchased a HHO generator online, not sure of the design but the housing is a water filter cartridge housing and the electrodes are two stainless wires wrapped around "X" shaped plexi-glass. The wires are kept in place by being threaded through holes drilled in the plexi-glass.
Unit has fluid level site tube. Construction seems to be sturdy and of quality assembley.

I installed the unit and an on/off switch. Used distilled water with 2 teaspoons baking soda. Prior to installing, tested unit and saw that it was putting out gas. Just placed outlet hose in small pail of water and watched it bubble. Ignited the bubbles to see if gas was flamable. It was. I don't have a clue as to the output of HHO but the bubbles came one at a time in a pace about as fast as you count 1-2-3-4 .... fairly rapidly.

Now the testing. Filled the tank until it could take no more. Trickled in the last of the gas until I could see it in the line. Off I went. 51.8 miles later, topped it off again. (mostly highway miles) 1.91 gallons= approx 27 mpg. NO WAY !!!!! Happy..happy!!!! (so I think)

Second test, back on the highway. Go 68.9 miles. Top of the tank...... 3.5 gallons = 19.7 mpg. What the heckShocked

I usually get 21 mpg on the highway. My speed is usually 65-68 mph with the cruise control set.

Plan on installing two O2 extenders this weekend and looking at getting a dual EFIE.

Any ideas of what may have happened? I'll accept that there's some margin for error in my calculations and topping off but not enough to make a 7 mpg difference.

I can see that this is going to take some effort. By the way, my goal is to get a 20% to 25% increase in overall mpg. Is that realistic?

Oh almost forgot, installed HHO output in the vacuum line after the MAP solenoid (I think that's right) There was a strong vacuum sucking air into the manifold there right into the top of the manifold.

Thanks
07-08-2008 06:49 AM
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jksav7 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Baffled????
I had the same experience in my Toyota pickup. Perhaps it was the computer rejecting the hydroxy after a short period of time, or it could be that there was simply that much error in the fillup. My first thought was that I had that much error in the fillup, but I'm now thinking that there's a chance that the computer rejected it. Still not sure.
07-08-2008 07:33 AM
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nismotekk Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Baffled????
apexpred Wrote:Hello,

New to the forum.

Thought I'd share my VERY limited experience. I'm not mechanically inclined at all so please bear with me. Don't have any clues about what my amperage draw is or the operating temp of my HHO unit.

Vehicle: 2002 Nissan Frontier SE Crew Cab

74K miles , 3.3 liter , auto, 2 wheel drive

Purchased a HHO generator online, not sure of the design but the housing is a water filter cartridge housing and the electrodes are two stainless wires wrapped around "X" shaped plexi-glass. The wires are kept in place by being threaded through holes drilled in the plexi-glass.
Unit has fluid level site tube. Construction seems to be sturdy and of quality assembley.

I installed the unit and an on/off switch. Used distilled water with 2 teaspoons baking soda. Prior to installing, tested unit and saw that it was putting out gas. Just placed outlet hose in small pail of water and watched it bubble. Ignited the bubbles to see if gas was flamable. It was. I don't have a clue as to the output of HHO but the bubbles came one at a time in a pace about as fast as you count 1-2-3-4 .... fairly rapidly.

Now the testing. Filled the tank until it could take no more. Trickled in the last of the gas until I could see it in the line. Off I went. 51.8 miles later, topped it off again. (mostly highway miles) 1.91 gallons= approx 27 mpg. NO WAY !!!!! Happy..happy!!!! (so I think)

Second test, back on the highway. Go 68.9 miles. Top of the tank...... 3.5 gallons = 19.7 mpg. What the heckShocked

I usually get 21 mpg on the highway. My speed is usually 65-68 mph with the cruise control set.

Plan on installing two O2 extenders this weekend and looking at getting a dual EFIE.

Any ideas of what may have happened? I'll accept that there's some margin for error in my calculations and topping off but not enough to make a 7 mpg difference.

I can see that this is going to take some effort. By the way, my goal is to get a 20% to 25% increase in overall mpg. Is that realistic?

Oh almost forgot, installed HHO output in the vacuum line after the MAP solenoid (I think that's right) There was a strong vacuum sucking air into the manifold there right into the top of the manifold.

Thanks

Your vehicle does not have a map, it has a mass airflow sensor(MAF). Do not install it to vacuum, you can suck water from your bubbler into the motor. Water cannot be compressed, therefore stuff tends to bend, like valves. Pulling the heads on your frontier is not fun. If i was you I would do more bench testing on the booster itself, you need to know gas output, and amperage draw if you plan on tuning it correctly. My advice to you get an EFIE deluxe, more pricey than o2 extenders, but the o2 sensors in a frontier are a real bitch to get out. Especially if they have been in there since 2002. You will save yourself the heartache of having to remove the o2 sensors. I would also rather see how the motor and operating system of the motor are reacting to the hydroxy, you can do this somewhat with the EFIE. With o2 extenders you are installing them, and just crossing your fingers. When you test again you need to do more accurate testing. Let me know if you need help, I know your truck like the back of my hand. I believe a 20 to 25% gain in fuel economy in your truck can be realized.
07-08-2008 08:04 AM
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apexpred Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Baffled????
Hmm... interesting. No MAP.

What's the electrical unit that's located on top of the air intake right next to the air filter? Do you think I would be better off tying the HHO output into the intake right before that throttle body?

I have some friends who are quite mechanically inclined and will ask them to measure what type of draw the booster is creating. I'll have to work on measuring the gas output.

Thanks
07-08-2008 09:21 AM
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jjski78 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Baffled????
That's a MAF. The Nissans don't use a MAP. (05 Frontier driver here)

I would route the line into the intake tube before the MAF. Also, you're gonna need the EFIE. The ECU is gonna reject anything you try to do to get better mileage. I'm still trying to convince the wife to let me put a system in my '05. She's afraid I'm gonna ruin a $25k truck.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2008 10:24 AM by jjski78.)
07-08-2008 10:22 AM
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wulfram Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Baffled????
sounds like you purchased the water4gas design gen.
Not to sound negative, but the water4gas design is probably one of the worst gens on the market. It probably puts out .5 liters at best and doesn't last more than two months before the wires corrode apart (especially if you are using baking soda).
07-08-2008 11:19 AM
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steelerfan89 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Baffled????
Re-read your water for gas book. It said this is exactly what would happen. You got the big gain, and then your computer corrected and sent your MPG down below what you originally got. (the book calls it limp home mode') You are correct in that you now need to address the o2 sensor.
07-08-2008 12:17 PM
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nismotekk Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Baffled????
jjski78 Wrote:That's a MAF. The Nissans don't use a MAP. (05 Frontier driver here)

I would route the line into the intake tube before the MAF. Also, you're gonna need the EFIE. The ECU is gonna reject anything you try to do to get better mileage. I'm still trying to convince the wife to let me put a system in my '05. She's afraid I'm gonna ruin a $25k truck.

I dont believe you want to plumb it in before the MAF, that is a hot wire MAF. I dont believe that it could cause an explosion, but the possibility is there. Also the MAF is a wire that will rust, if there is some catalyst vapor that escapes the bubbler Im sure it would ruin the MAF. It also works off of small voltage incriments. MAFs are not cheap. The ECU will only reject it if it can see it. If you are not producing enough gas, and the ECU cant see it, all you are doing is leaning out your fuel right? I believe it is important to measure gas production to see what your ECU is seeing, and then tune from there. That is what I am trying to do.
07-08-2008 12:33 PM
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Jarko Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Baffled????
Your system doesn't work because you're trying to violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. Don't waste any more money on this.
07-08-2008 12:38 PM
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jjski78 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Baffled????
Hey Jarko. You just trolling through?? Apparently you haven't seen the many threads with positive results in this forum. Just troll your boat right on out of here if you're not going to contribute anything useful.
07-08-2008 12:46 PM
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