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Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
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RebelScientist Offline
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Post: #1
Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
Hey Mike, Hey Everyone,

When we connect almost any "fuel efficient device" we get an excess of Oxygen through the exhaust. so O2 voltage goes down and the computer puts in more gass.

so if we install an EFIE, we first have to find where o2 sensor Voltage signal + Efie voltage signal = approx. .45V and stays stable because thats what computer and engine likes and thats where we match gas millage when we didn't had an efficency device.
Am I thinking this Straight?

and then we go on from there onto how much lean we can make it to work best

so my concern is that Efie settings needs to go higher than a few milivots to get efficiency. I am running at .36 v and still feels a bit rich. although i am seeing progress, I may need a few millivolts more.

what do you think?
03-17-2008 10:35 AM
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RebelScientist Offline
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RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
oh, also, I have noticed slight voltage drop on EFIE when engine is on higher RPMs compare to idle.
and if I am running on .36v, that means my O2 sensor is outputing only .1 v

man, do I have a high o2 output or what..... i am puting 02 in the atmosphere..... screw trees, who need em when I have my car Big Grin

oh and, my fuel effiecent device is HHO gas generator through electrolysis
Thanks
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2008 10:43 AM by RebelScientist.)
03-17-2008 10:42 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
You will always get an average of .45 at the ECU (downstream from the EFIE), because that is the value the ECU is trying to maintain. By adding the EFIE the air/fuel ratio will be leaner than the ECU thinks, but the voltage will be .45 whether the EFIE is on or off. The mix will just be leaner with it on. Oh, and when I say the voltage will be .45, i mean that will be the average voltage. The actual voltage will be fluctuating all over the place between .1 and 1.0 volts. I hope I explained that well.

You can keep adjusting your EFIE higher until the check engine light comes on. If you get better mileage then go ahead and raise it, and test again. Stop raising the EFIE when your mileage stops improving. At some point when raising the EFIE, you may go too far and the check engine light will come on. This means that the EFIE plus sensor voltage is never dropping below .45 and the computer "knows" that this means the sensor if faulty. It will then ignore the data and give you lots of gas. Your mileage will fall like a shot duck.

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03-17-2008 11:17 AM
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RebelScientist Offline
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RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
hmm. but when we put an EFIE in and put a bit of voltage through the signal wire to ECM, the real O2 signal voltage goes down.

so when EFIE is in series with the O2 sensor.
EFIE Voltage + O2 voltage = .45

so if my EFIE is on with .2v and is constant, that means computer wants to make the o2 sensor .25 (which it thinks is .45 since .2 is from efie)

so all of a sudden, computer wants .25 instead of .45 which means it wants more Oxygen. so I guess the fuel injector backs off to make o2 flow from intake.

so I guess in my first post, I wanted to get the Fuel injectors back to normal and not the o2 signal.

its a bit difficult to understand...

but wow, running an o2 sensor @ low voltages is bad because the fluctuation signal from 0-set voltage dromatically cuts down

I'll see how it goes
thanks
03-17-2008 03:05 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
I'm sorry, I don't follow all of that.

But one thing that stands out is that you say you're getting a constant voltage from your oxygen sensors. That's just not right. The voltage should be changing 2 or 3 times per second and should be all over the scale from .1 to .9 although you'll probably never see those extremes. If your sensor signal is not changing like that, something is wrong and needs to be fixed before proceeding.

When I say .45 volts, I'm talking about the average voltage. You'll probably never see .45 volts.

Does this sound like what you're seeing?

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03-17-2008 04:04 PM
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RebelScientist Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
okay, nvm.

Thanks though
03-18-2008 08:20 AM
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RebelScientist Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
Okay, let me try to explain this another way

lets hold RPM constant

so I unplug my o2 sensor from computer connection and measure the volage signal

the uncontrolled fuel injectors throw in more gass and my o2 sensor reads .9volts. now, I turn on my fuel Efficiency device (hho cell) and the reading goes down to .25votls

so my o2 sensor and my injectors are not regulated and therefore is stable at .25v and its running rich.

Suppose I somehow control Injectors to normal and my 02 signal goes down to say .20 volts. now, I balanced it to original mpg and know its balanced at .2 volts with Fuel efficiency device and then set EFIE to produce the remaining voltage of .25 .

computer wants .45 no matter what. and thats what I am gonna give to it.

right?
03-25-2008 08:39 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
No, that's not correct. Your computer wants to see fluctuations swinging back and forth, way above .45 and way below .45. When it sees below .45, it will add additional gas and then it expects to see it go high, at which point it will back off the gas and it goes low...

If this dynamic is stopped, it will throw a code for insufficient switching.

When you're reading the oxygen sensor, it needs to be hooked up on all of it's wires. Reconnect the sensor, and then read the signal wire to ground. You should see the switching I was telling you about. Do that test and tell me what results you got.

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03-25-2008 09:20 AM
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RebelScientist Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
mike Wrote:No, that's not correct. Your computer wants to see fluctuations swinging back and forth, way above .45 and way below .45. When it sees below .45, it will add additional gas and then it expects to see it go high, at which point it will back off the gas and it goes low...

If this dynamic is stopped, it will throw a code for insufficient switching.

When you're reading the oxygen sensor, it needs to be hooked up on all of it's wires. Reconnect the sensor, and then read the signal wire to ground. You should see the switching I was telling you about. Do that test and tell me what results you got.

well yes I know that it fluctuates constantly but thats because the fuel injectors are being set on every engine cycle which produces a different o2 value every time and ECM just keeps adjusting up and down depending on O2 volts.
I thought this part is Understood, and I can talk about average value which is .45v .
it is very hard to study the fluctuations because they are soo fast. (every engine cycle) so I do my tests while unpluging the O2 sensor so I get steady readings.

but this wasn't the pointGaspCrazy
03-25-2008 09:44 AM
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xcite Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Balancing the O2 Sensor first, B4 going for savings
I think what Mike is trying to get across to you is that by unhooking the O2 sensor to take readings you are actually throwing the computer into open loop and the computer imediately makes the system run richer. If you left it unhooked long enough you would set a code in the computer also.

Any readings should be taken while the whole system is in tact or the reading will not be valid and unusable.

Depending on the system you are modifying it is quite possible to have to much offset with an efie and keep the system form entering closed loop operation. Some systems may not even set a code for quite some time either. As long as the system is in open loop the O2 sensor has no affect because the computer isnt using its signal at all.
03-25-2008 10:54 AM
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