Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Below 20:1
Author Message
hoozadoctor Offline
Member
***

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
Below 20:1
Hi.
I am currently using two Hydrogen electrolyzes, on my 5Lt V8 Fairlane. I have 2 oxygen sensors. My understanding is that the sensors (narrow band) produce currents between about .1v and .9v depending on the oxygen present in the exhaust. The ECU expects it to run up and down and give a mean average of about .45v which is equal to 14.7:1.

If I am able to produce enough hydrogen and lean my mixture out to say around 20:1 or even leaner then my understand is the oxygen sensor won't produce and signal. If my oxygen sensor doesn't produce a signal (voltage) does that mean there is no way an EFIE can work ? I mean surely it has to have signal before it can enhance it ?

Further to complicate the matter my car actually runs on gas. Please note I am talking about GAS (LPG) NOT petroleum. It has duel fuel ..Petrol and Gas but GAS costs $0.63 a Litre and petrol $1.70 Litre so I use LPG and of course Hydrogen. So far I am getting a massive 4.5% increase in economy using Hydrogen. The LPG GAS system comes with it's own computer which plugs into the cars computer but it still uses all the sensors.

So to recap.

1. Can I use an EFIE even if my mixture is 20 to one or leaner ?
2. Can I use an EFEI in conjunction with an oxygen simulator, and set the EFEI to make the computer think the car is running rich ? (by pass to oxygen sensor altogether)

3. What can I use to get accurate measurements of what my mixture actually is.

Doc
07-12-2008 05:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #2
RE: Below 20:1
I know E85 tolerates a lean mix better than gas. What do we hear about LPG?

Sounds like a good way to throw a CEL.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-12-2008 07:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hoozadoctor Offline
Member
***

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: Below 20:1
colchiro Wrote:I know E85 tolerates a lean mix better than gas. What do we hear about LPG?

Sounds like a good way to throw a CEL.

Could some king soul please translate this message into plain English. I have no idea what E85 is !!! (sounds like something on the menu at the local Chinese take away) Also have no idea what "Throw a CEL" means ?? is that like throw a fit ??

Doc
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2008 04:58 PM by hoozadoctor.)
07-12-2008 04:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #4
RE: Below 20:1
E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% unleaded gasoline, commonly found in the Midwest, but spreading into all parts of the US.

A CEL is a "check engine light", which means your cars ECU (computer) isn't happy and is throwing a fit.

I said that gas mixed with ethanol can go lean (without damaging your engine), easier than regular gasoline.

Can LPG do this? If it can't, it's a good way to turn on your "check engine light" in your dash and your car's computer will go into a pre-defined mode, called "open loop", where it ignores all the sensors (and does it's own thing) and you can try until the cows come home to go lean and it won't happen.Mad

Better?Blush

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-12-2008 05:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hoozadoctor Offline
Member
***

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #5
RE: Below 20:1
colchiro Wrote:E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% unleaded gasoline, commonly found in the Midwest, but spreading into all parts of the US.

A CEL is a "check engine light", which means your cars ECU (computer) isn't happy and is throwing a fit.

I said that gas mixed with ethanol can go lean (without damaging your engine), easier than regular gasoline.

Can LPG do this? If it can't, it's a good way to turn on your "check engine light" in your dash and your car's computer will go into a pre-defined mode, called "open loop", where it ignores all the sensors (and does it's own thing) and you can try until the cows come home to go lean and it won't happen.Mad

Better?Blush

Actually my 1991 Ford Fairlane Ghia V8 doesn't actually have a "check engine light" it doesn't even use the MAP sensor, it has one but it is used as a Barometric sensor NOT as a MAP sensor. The OBD is of cause ther first generation of OBD"s and I am having trouble finding infomation on in and having trouble finding a scanner for it. Any help at all would be appreciated.

Doc
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2008 10:01 PM by hoozadoctor.)
07-12-2008 09:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #6
RE: Below 20:1
If you pick up a narrow band air-fuel meter (start about $40) and connect it to one of your o2 sensors (before the EFIE), it'll report your actual air-fuel ratio. With two o2 sensors you'd need a double EFIE, to control both the left and right sensors.

You don't want to bypass your o2 sensor completely and I doubt the o2 simulator is necessary. I doubt you'll be able to see 20:1, but with luck you might be able to hit 15.5, maybe 16:1. Not sure how well it'll run... it might misfire like crazy. It's possible a ring-fire type or Halo spark plug may prevent the misfiring with super-lean mixtures.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-12-2008 10:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hoozadoctor Offline
Member
***

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #7
RE: Below 20:1
colchiro Wrote:If you pick up a narrow band air-fuel meter (start about $40) and connect it to one of your o2 sensors (before the EFIE), it'll report your actual air-fuel ratio. With two o2 sensors you'd need a double EFIE, to control both the left and right sensors.

You don't want to bypass your o2 sensor completely and I doubt the o2 simulator is necessary. I doubt you'll be able to see 20:1, but with luck you might be able to hit 15.5, maybe 16:1. Not sure how well it'll run... it might misfire like crazy. It's possible a ring-fire type or Halo spark plug may prevent the misfiring with super-lean mixtures.

I had a very comprehensive reply written but hit the wrong button and lost the lot.

Basically I am running the LPG gas at 15.4 preset by the LPG computer at the factory.

If I increase to 18:1 that is an increase in fuel economy of about 17%
at 20:1 I believe it is 30 % and at 25:1 that is an increase in economy of around 60%

My understanding is that using the hydrogen Soup will allow us to lean the fuel out to 25:1 else there isn't really any point to the whole project.

Doc
07-14-2008 08:09 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #8
RE: Below 20:1
My understanding is the oxygen in the exhaust is perceived by the o2 sensor/ECU as not enough fuel so it richens the mixture and the purpose of the EFIE is to correct that mistake (to 14.7, or possibly a little leaner).

I also understand that too lean increases exhaust temps, increases (nitrous?) emissions and there's a very good possibility of misfiring.

I think you'll find this interesting: Firestorm spark plugs on OUPower.com

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-14-2008 08:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hoozadoctor Offline
Member
***

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #9
RE: Below 20:1
colchiro Wrote:My understanding is the oxygen in the exhaust is perceived by the o2 sensor/ECU as not enough fuel so it richens the mixture and the purpose of the EFIE is to correct that mistake (to 14.7, or possibly a little leaner).

I also understand that too lean increases exhaust temps, increases (nitrous?) emissions and there's a very good possibility of misfiring.

I think you'll find this interesting: Firestorm spark plugs on OUPower.com

Thank Rick that was VERY informative and is very much in the direction we are trying to go in in Australia. Much appreciated.

Doc
07-14-2008 09:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #10
RE: Below 20:1
I'd like buy some of those magical plugs. Hmm

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-14-2008 10:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)