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Can you see HHO?
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cmac0351 Offline
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Post: #1
Can you see HHO?
I read a post the other day that mentioned caustic steam and I want to make sure I am not creating that. I am running a Dry Cell on the bench before I install it into my car, and when it makes gas, the gas looks like steam, but my plates stay cool and the bubbles explode with a flame (yes I am being careful; no I don't think this is a toy). I have the output hose from the reservoir going to a cup full of water so the gas will bubble up through the water. I can see the whitish greyish gas coming out of the cup when the bubbles pop.

So, can you see HHO?
01-02-2009 10:53 AM
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benny Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
(01-02-2009 10:53 AM)cmac0351 Wrote:  I read a post the other day that mentioned caustic steam and I want to make sure I am not creating that. I am running a Dry Cell on the bench before I install it into my car, and when it makes gas, the gas looks like steam, but my plates stay cool and the bubbles explode with a flame (yes I am being careful; no I don't think this is a toy). I have the output hose from the reservoir going to a cup full of water so the gas will bubble up through the water. I can see the whitish greyish gas coming out of the cup when the bubbles pop.

So, can you see HHO?

Hydrogen is colourless and odourless.
Oxygen is colourless and odourless.

So, no. You can't see HHO

Hopefully you are intending to use some sort of bubbler in your system. Set up your bubbler to give streams of smallish bubbles through the water, rather than large bubbles from the end of a pipe. Pin holes in a pipe work for me. That way you have a better chance of cooling the HHO, and also help in removing any of the whitish steam you can see. If still not happy with the result, a second bubbler in line should trap any which bypasses the first bubbler. Do not be tempted to sniff the fumes. Some electrolytes can give off toxic fumes. e.g. Ordinary salt solution can produce chlorine gas when electrolysed. Not recommended for breathing.

What you see is probably just steam, but bear in mind the above. It may, or may not be caustic in nature.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2009 12:54 PM by benny.)
01-02-2009 12:47 PM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
Hmmm, that's a good suggestion for cooling the electrolyte and cutting down on the steam. Then of course, you could use vinegar in the bubbler instead of water to detoxify the acids. After misting a plate with the steam, I plan to do this from now on with HHO.
What you get on the bench will differ from how it acts in the vehicle, due to the pulsed dc of a bench charger vs the steady dc of your alternator. So your final test should be on the vehicle alternator; it could run hotter.
01-02-2009 02:58 PM
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cmac0351 Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
Can you explain what misting the plate with steam is for? What are you looking for to happen or not happen?



(01-02-2009 02:58 PM)Gary Wrote:  Hmmm, that's a good suggestion for cooling the electrolyte and cutting down on the steam. Then of course, you could use vinegar in the bubbler instead of water to detoxify the acids. After misting a plate with the steam, I plan to do this from now on with HHO.
What you get on the bench will differ from how it acts in the vehicle, due to the pulsed dc of a bench charger vs the steady dc of your alternator. So your final test should be on the vehicle alternator; it could run hotter.
01-02-2009 07:40 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Can you see HHO?
I suspect Gary's exposing a plate of glass with hho steam and checking the plate when it cools, possibly with litmus paper or other means for residue.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
01-02-2009 08:14 PM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
Almost. I just took a piece of steel plate on day and misted the "steam" onto it and let it dry. Had it been just water, it would have dried off and that would have been it. But instead, it left white salts from the NaOH behind.
Not a good thing in an aluminum-built engine.
01-03-2009 05:52 AM
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cmac0351 Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
(01-02-2009 02:58 PM)Gary Wrote:  Then of course, you could use vinegar in the bubbler instead of water to detoxify the acids.

Do you mean that vinegar neutralizes the NaOH that comes with the HHO. Isn't vinegar an acid and NaOH a base?

If this is the case, will you need to change the vinegar often? Will it lose its acidity?
01-03-2009 06:05 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
You got it backwards I believe. We use vinegar when working with NaOH to neutralize it when spilling on the hands or in cuts, anyway. NaOH doesn't bother my carpenter's hands unless I'm cut.
How long it lasts would depend on how hot your unit is running I suppose; making more steam would produce more acid in the bubbler. But hey, it's the cheapest medicine, weightloss, cleaner, detoxifier, and antibiotic around.
01-03-2009 08:07 AM
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benny Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Can you see HHO?
(01-03-2009 08:07 AM)Gary Wrote:  You got it backwards I believe. We use vinegar when working with NaOH to neutralize it when spilling on the hands or in cuts, anyway. NaOH doesn't bother my carpenter's hands unless I'm cut.
How long it lasts would depend on how hot your unit is running I suppose; making more steam would produce more acid in the bubbler. But hey, it's the cheapest medicine, weightloss, cleaner, detoxifier, and antibiotic around.

So it could kill you and cure you at the same time? Hmm

NaOH is alkaline in nature, acetic acid (vinegar) is what it says it is, an acid.
One will tend to cancel out the other. So yes, it could be an good idea to put some vinegar in solution in your bubbler. Just don't be tempted to drink the stuffSad.

Sometimes the water in the bubbler gets a bit cloudy when contaminated., and the water may begin to feel soapy when rubbed between fingers and thumb..
Just change at regular intervals.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2009 09:00 AM by benny.)
01-03-2009 08:57 AM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Can you see HHO?
Hopefully you have some way (check valve or other means) to keep your bubbler solution out of your reservoir or cell.Wink

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
01-03-2009 09:00 AM
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