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Check Engine light?
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JMBRAD Offline
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Post: #1
Check Engine light?
Hello all! This is my 1st post on Fuel-Saver.org

I am very interested in trying HHO on my 97 Merc. Sable. But I have a check engine light on right now. It's for code P0411, Secondary air-incorrect flow detected.

It doesn't seem to be in open loop though, because I still get 28mpg HWY.

My question is, should I try to get the light to go out before I try going to HHO?

Thanks,

Jody
07-18-2008 12:21 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Check Engine light?
I'd Google Merc and P0411 and see what can cause that. It sounds like a problem with your air pump. link, which will probably affect emissions more than mileage. Still I'd see what's involved to fix it (while you're working on your cell).Wink

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-18-2008 04:17 PM
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nismotekk Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Check Engine light?
JMBRAD Wrote:Hello all! This is my 1st post on Fuel-Saver.org

I am very interested in trying HHO on my 97 Merc. Sable. But I have a check engine light on right now. It's for code P0411, Secondary air-incorrect flow detected.

It doesn't seem to be in open loop though, because I still get 28mpg HWY.

My question is, should I try to get the light to go out before I try going to HHO?

Thanks,

Jody

rick could be right, secondary air could also mean the intake secondary or "butterfly valves" could be malfunctioning. They are vacuum operated so look for vacuum leaks in the system, but with 28mpg I wouldnt guess a vacuum leak. thats a MAF car and any unmetered air makes the ECU upset. So the ECU tends to fatten up the A/F ratio. Is that a duratec engine? or a vulcan OHV engine? Also your car is in open loop when you start it up. It goes into closed loop when it sees the right coolant temp on your vehicle. I believe in your car it will throw a CEL when it doesnt go into closed loop in 800 seconds. I would at least diagnose the problem, and then make the choice to fix it. It is also common to for the butterfly valves to become slugged up, I have seen that before.
07-18-2008 05:07 PM
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JMBRAD Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Check Engine light?
It's the 12 valve engine, I guess that would be the duratec?

As far as Googlen' the code, I have searched for the past year and there is no easy fix for that code. It could be many things. I just recently changed one of the valve assemblies (9J459) trying to get the code to clear. Every time I try something new, I clear the code, but it always comes back on hot-idle. The secondary air pump is working, I pulled the output hose off and it's blowing air, so it's not the pump or relay. I have no leaks that I can detect. That's as far as I have gotten.

Oh yeah, the Mass Air sensor has been changed as well.

Jody
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2008 05:22 PM by JMBRAD.)
07-18-2008 05:20 PM
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nismotekk Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Check Engine light?
JMBRAD Wrote:It's the 12 valve engine, I guess that would be the duratec?

As far as Googlen' the code, I have searched for the past year and there is no easy fix for that code. It could be many things. I just recently changed one of the valve assemblies (9J459) trying to get the code to clear. Every time I try something new, I clear the code, but it always comes back on hot-idle. The secondary air pump is working, I pulled the output hose off and it's blowing air, so it's not the pump or relay. I have no leaks that I can detect. That's as far as I have gotten.

Oh yeah, the Mass Air sensor has been changed as well.

Jody

12 valve is the vulcan, 24 valve is the duratec. You said it could be many things? What system does the light apply to? I really dont think the vulcan motor ever got 28mpg no matter what car they stuffed it in. Do you have something else done?
07-18-2008 06:05 PM
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JMBRAD Offline
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RE: Check Engine light?
The error code is P0411 "Secondary Air-pump incorrect airflow detected"

The pump is mounted down on the frame right behind the radiator and under the battery.

I don't have any modifications yet. The 28mpg is straight HWY mileage. No stop and go. That's the best it's ever done. I don't get but 22mpg city.
07-19-2008 10:29 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Check Engine light?
Is there a filter on the input of this air pump? "Incorrect airflow" sounds like too much or too little. I don't know how you'd get too much.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2008 02:24 PM by colchiro.)
07-19-2008 02:23 PM
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JMBRAD Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Check Engine light?
No, there is no filter. The pump only runs when the engine is 1st started for about 2 minutes, in order heat up the catalytic converter. It will run again if idleing in traffic to put more air in to keep the cat hot. It's on the hot idle cycle that the light always comes back on.

Jody
07-20-2008 06:18 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Check Engine light?
Like I said before, if it's your air pump, which is my guess, it's an emissions issue and shouldn't affect your mileage.

I'd Google the hell out of it and if all else fails, talk to the dealer and I bet they've heard of it before and know the fix (and it's cost).

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-20-2008 03:23 PM
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