Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Disappointing results
Author Message
Larrybia Offline
Member
***

Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
Disappointing results
My first post. Vehicle: 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 liter. Digital EFIE installed and set to 300 and then 200 mv. Only installed on upstream O2 sensors. Green light blinking as required. Nine plate 4” dry cell with PWM power supply installed. Only producing .6 lt/min at 15 amps. Nine % by weight KOH solution. (Working this low production problem. Suspect poor drop from reservoir. Considering adding electrolyte pump.) Two 60 mile runs gave reduction in MPG of 4 % and 1 %. Very disappointed in results. Went through the first 7 items in the checklist and all appears to be ok. What am I doing wrong???. SadSadSad
09-11-2009 06:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #2
RE: Disappointing results
You must treat your downstream sensor(s). I'm not sure if you have one or two on that Jeep. But Jeep uses the downstream sensors in their air/fuel calculations. This is known and documented.

For a 4 liter engine I'd really like to see a minimum of 1 liter per minute of HHO production, but you should still get decent results with .6 lpm. Lets get those downstream sensors treated, and then see where we are.

A more broad approach to debugging your project can be found in HHO System Debug Checklist.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
09-11-2009 07:20 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Larrybia Offline
Member
***

Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: Disappointing results
Still disappointed and confused. Connected the rear OX sensors to the dual digital EFIE. Set the front to 200 mv and rear to 200 mv. With HHO and EFIE on caused loss of power during the road test. Turning off either the EFIE or HHO returned the power. Having either on had no effect on power. Power loss only with both on. Changed to 250 front and 150 rear. Power ok on road but very rough on idle at stop light. No improvement in gas mileage. Check all wiring and production of gas. All ok. Did additional checks under idle conditions. 100 rear, 350 front, with HHO on poor idle. 50 rear, 350 front still poor idle with HHO. I do not understand what is happening. Any suggestions.
09-12-2009 06:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #4
RE: Disappointing results
Hi Larry. The rear o2's should use a conventional efie (not the digital). That's not to say it definitely won't work, it's just not recommended. http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/EfieIns...gital.html

I'm betting that 250 and below is too lean considering your .6 LPM.

What happens if you set it at 350 (which is a pretty low setting).

Digital efie's run opposite from normal efies so 350 is pretty tame and 200-250 is better suited for higher rates of hho.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
09-12-2009 07:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Larrybia Offline
Member
***

Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 0
Post: #5
RE: Disappointing results
The EFIE I got is digital for upstream and downstream is analog. I got it from Fuel Saver on their recommendation based use on a 2002 jeep. I tried all the setings and things do not seam to work as other people report. Has anyone gotten this HHO approach to work on a 2002 jeep? If so how have they done it? I am starting to believe this HHO thing only works on older cars or not at all. Is it that hard to get working?
09-12-2009 08:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #6
RE: Disappointing results
Hi Larry, the dual digital is designed for treating two pre-cat o2's. The quad is designed for 2 pre-cat and 2 post cats.

This from the description on the store:
Note: If you need to treat sensors that are downstream from a catalytic converter, we do not recommend this device. Use our legacy style EFIE for these sensors instead. These are intended for upstream sensors only. We now offer a Quad EFIE with 2 Digital upstream EFIEs and 2 EFIEs designed to handle downstream sensors for complete oxygen sensor control.

Note: Some Dodge/Chrysler vehicles have been known to put 2.5 volts on the sensor's "sig low" wire. This raises the signal high wire by 2.5 volts. Instead of seeing 0 to 1 volt you'll see 2.5 to 3.5 volts on the signal wire. In these cases it is vital that you contact us and we will make you a custom version of our Digital EFIE that will work with this added voltage. If you have a Dodge or Chrysler vehicle we recommend you locate and measure your signal wire using our Digital Narrow Band Installation Instructions prior to purchasing a Digital EFIE. Let us know if you have this conditions so we send you an EFIE that will work with these voltages.

I believe some Jeep's uses the same 2.5 volt signal as the Chryslers. By chance did you check yours or did the topic come up?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
09-12-2009 09:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Larrybia Offline
Member
***

Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 0
Post: #7
RE: Disappointing results
I have the quad EFIE. Thats two digital and one analog. How do I check the voltage on the downstream? Should I measure from the sensor wire to the ground? I have a scope. Is it correct that I should see either a chinging signal from about.1 volt to about .9 volt or a varying signal from 2.6 volts to 3.4 volts.
09-13-2009 04:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #8
RE: Disappointing results
Hi Larry,

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I'm a little confused about the settings you've actually tried. But what I suggest is that you minimize the amount the EFIE is changing the sensor's signal, and get that working right. Make sure the computer is happy with it, and then incrementally increase.

First to answer your question. You have 3 test points on the EFIE, 1 black and 2 red. The black is ground. Put your black meter probe in the black test port. Put your red test port in the upper red test port (nearest the pot for the digital EFIEs), and that will test the digital EFIE setting. Put you red probe in the bottom red test port to measure the analog (downstream) EFIEs. Both voltages will be steady, although there is a startup delay of a minute or so for those digital EFIEs.

For this I recommend .35 for the upstream and about .100 or so for the downstream. Run that for a tankful. If all ok, lower the front and raise the back by .025 or so. Each time run for the engine for a day or 2 and make sure that it runs OK before trying a leaner setting.

As you know from the instructions, lower voltage on the front means leaner. Higher voltage on the rear means leaner. However, whenever you turn either pot clockwise, that is always leaner.

Now, if you are still having trouble, after cutting your voltages way back, then you really need to dig into the Debug Checklist. You'll find it on my documents page. Something is bugged.

And to answer your other question: All vehicles can be handled and all vehicles can get milege gains of 30% - 50%. With .6 lpm, you'll probably get 30% when your project is debugged. But it's not just older cars. We've seen 2009s get these increases and every year in between.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
09-13-2009 03:52 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Larrybia Offline
Member
***

Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 0
Post: #9
RE: Disappointing results
Mike:

I have adjusted the rear to 50 mv and the front to 350 mv. Using the test points on the EFIF. I have also improved the HHO output to 1.4 lt/min. When I turn both on and run at idle after about 3 mins the engine drops in RPM and begins to run rough. Turning either the EFIE or the HHO off makes the engine run ok again. I have checked the wiring to the sensors again and have found no problems. The green LEDs flash on and off. I get no eng light. I went through the check list on the Document section and found no problems but I will try again.

From everything I have read I should see improved MPG. I must be doing something wrong. I am going to keep trying.

Thanks
Larry
09-13-2009 06:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #10
RE: Disappointing results
Larry, is your hho entering thru the air filter housing or engine vacuum? If it's vacuum you might be creating a vacuum leak.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
09-13-2009 07:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)