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Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
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wpvk818 Offline
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Post: #1
Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
Hello Mike,
Seems I have the same drifting voltage offset problem as some other EFIE owners. I first ran into problems with my install when I tied the 12v leads to the terminals on my HHO cell. I noticed I could not get .100mv out no matter how much I turned the POT. I found out the voltage drop across the cell terminals was only giving the EFIE about 7volts in, so I put the EFIE on a dedicated 12v circuit and I was then able to tune the full range.

After tuning to .200mv, then gradually increasing over a few tanks all the way up to .400mv I have not seen any change in MPG or vehicle behavior. Even as high as .400mv the ECU stays in closed loop, which I thought was unusual. Today I decided to meter the offset voltage during my morning commute. With the EFIE offset at exactly .400 in my driveway and idling, I found it to increase as I accelerated to as much as .420mv, and decrease to as low as .380mv as I slow to a stop.

I drive a 98 Jeep Cherokee which should have just regular narrow band o2 sensors from what I've researched. My direct o2 sensor readings are normal, and my wiring is correct. Not sure what to do.
05-19-2008 06:07 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
Well, I can tell you 2 things: 1) that is too much variance in the EFIE, and I can swap it out for you. but 2) that amount of variance is not causing your lack of gain in mpg. The change in AFR that will be caused by 20 millivolts is actually negligible.

Send an email to support@fuelsaver-mpg.com and copy the link to this thread in it, so I can see what we've already said. I'll just need your real name and address to replace your board. That will get your variance down less than one half what you have now.

However, to handle your lack of mpg gain, I would first start looking at the design of your electrolyser. To be getting a drop from 12 volts to 7 at your electrolyser is pretty radical. I suspect you're drawing more amps (and horsepower) than you're getting back, thus no improvement. Do you have a pre-built unit, or a home brew. And if a home brew, what design did you follow?

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(This post was last modified: 05-19-2008 08:47 AM by mike.)
05-19-2008 08:15 AM
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wpvk818 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
My electrolyzer is homebrew, and I recently switched to a better design. The voltage drop across the terminals brings it down to about 10.5v. It runs at 25amps, with approximately 1.8 LPM output. I also pre-heat my fuel, and have added xylene to the mix. I ran a MAP sensor enhancer for a while with good success but I wanted to try the EFIE method alone, and then combined with the MAP sensor enhancer for research purposes.
05-19-2008 06:53 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
Ok, I get it. The two definitely work best together.

Are you trying to run the EFIE by itself to see what mpg increase you can get? Because it's designed to work with the electrolyzer and/or the fuel cracking additive. With all of those technologies in place you must be getting better fuel mileage. What mpg are you getting with the various configs you've tried? What exact config have you tried with the EFIE?

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05-19-2008 07:01 PM
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wpvk818 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
mike Wrote:Ok, I get it. The two definitely work best together.

Are you trying to run the EFIE by itself to see what mpg increase you can get? Because it's designed to work with the electrolyzer and/or the fuel cracking additive. With all of those technologies in place you must be getting better fuel mileage. What mpg are you getting with the various configs you've tried? What exact config have you tried with the EFIE?

I'm running the EFIE with the electrolyzer, fuel heater and additives. With the MAP enhancer (as the only leaning technique) I was able to get a 10+ MPG gain, from 18 to 28 MPG. I wanted to compare the EFIE to that, and then use the two together to collect scientifc data on this technology.
05-20-2008 10:28 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
Ok, cool. 10+ mpg rocks. That's a 50% gain. I'm not sure what your question to me is any more. Do you still have one?

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05-20-2008 08:32 PM
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wpvk818 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
mike Wrote:Ok, cool. 10+ mpg rocks. That's a 50% gain. I'm not sure what your question to me is any more. Do you still have one?

My biggest concerns are: 1. The EFIE drifts quite a bit. This morning I set the EFIE offset at 325mv...stable in the driveway for 10 mins at idle. By the time I arrived at work it had climbed to 368mv.

2. While using EFIE as leaning method no MPG gains seen, no obvious leaning detected, and ECU stays in closed loop regardless of my EFIE setting, even over 400mv. Keep in mind I'm using the same electrolyzer and fuel heater that I've used with the MAP enhancer.

How can I be sure the EFIE is actually working?
05-21-2008 12:44 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
What does your mileage do if you turn your EFIE off?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-21-2008 02:54 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
You can be sure the EFIE is working by measuring between the black and the red test port. That is the voltage that is being added to the sensor signal wire, before it gets to the ECU. You can do the tests that are outlined in http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/ReadEFIE.html . In particular, measure the voltage of the black port to ground and then the red port to ground. You should see the fluctuatiing voltages of the sensor and the red port should be higher than the black port by the voltage that the EFIE is set to (.325). Please send me a PM or an email to arrange a replacement for your current circuit board.

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(This post was last modified: 07-31-2009 10:32 AM by mike.)
05-21-2008 03:11 PM
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jdram58 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Drifting EFIE, closed loop no matter what setting.
Big time "newbe"


I been having trouble understanding my EFIE but do to this post this will help some to see if it the EFIE is working with the testing black ground and the red to ground before mentioned at all because the LED is not working. And I am assuming up on the toggle switch is on and down is off

I have noticed some gain in mileage from 22.5-23 mpg normal city driving with just the additives Acetone and Xylene and the electyrtolyzers and EFIE to about 26.5 or 27 which I thought was pretty good little improvement considering I don't do much highway driving.

Have any of you heard of or tried this AquaTuner @aquatuner.com?

I have a home brew electrolyzer two of the wire wrap type W4 gas design not very effecient though I use NaOH and water instead of baking soda I think stainless plates will be better but i will try to keep the glass jars because I don't have much room in my 1993 Subaru Legacy 2.2 liter engine compartment I just recently had an oil change snythetic oil and filter. And new plugs and wires I think he the mechanic gapped the plugs real wide and i don't know why!

I was worried about vacume leaks but I found I have plenty of vacume I added or tried a simple cheap water/ alcohol injection product. Just a jar with a lid with a hose and fish tank air stone bubbler and plastic controller a clear 1/4 in line to the vacume lines using the Blue windsheild washer fluid. So I was able to see I do have plenty of vacume as fluid and or moisture was being sucked in in all my inlet or intake lines depending on the rpms or reving the engine. Probably a good cheap way to test vacume for others as well less then about $5.00 to make one unless you buy a AC/DC battery powered fish tank air pump as well still under $25.00 though!

I plan on adding some type of fuel heater off of or from a hose from my cooling system.

But I am having trouble with the MAF enhancer and finding the right signal wire. I have a red wire which is 12V power, a white?? tried it didn't work, Black-I think is a ground, a red/ black which my repair manual says is also a ground didn't work either for either the air sensor or the air temperature sensor. And there is a blue wire which I am trying now. But the motor chokes out when I hit the gas. Seems to idle OK but no power.

Which i am guessing could be the bad plug gap from a recent tune up or I am just going to unhook the MAF enhancer period until I figure out how to hook it up.

But my check engine light is on been on all day and finally I saw why the O2 sensor wire to the computer had come off or came apart. So I rewired the whole thing again made sure the wies were attached with a sort of sure screw down barrel connector. Not coming apart this time! And I had it hooked to the starter solenoid but changed the power wire to a 15 amp fuse in the engine compartment fuse box.

But still my engine is running rough and I drove it home from work in "limp home mode" got home and I found I forgot to hook up the manifold hose to the MAF no wonder it was running rough Dah!

But really I am having trouble still don't know which wire is the signal wire from the MAF to the computer. I got a wiring diagram from adhol.com that is virtually worthless and the wiring diagram from my Hanes manual and some other info and I even asked one of the mechanic's at work to look it up on their repair computer and we still couldn't tell which one was which or the signal wire on their computers. 5 wires but still don't know for sure what the signal wire is to attach to the MAF enhancer.

One place or web site had a picture of a 5 pin diagram saying the the middle pin was the signal but my center wire is red/black so I know that can't be it according to the Hanes manual it is a "ground wire" one of two ground wires one for the air flow and one for the air temperature. I tested them with my volt meter this morning but there was a little charge on the Red/black 2-3 mA or mV.

But my problem right now is my car running rough like it is choking in fact I went for a ride to walk my dog and came back and I couldn't get it started period I had to get a ride home so I will try over again in the morning. I am guessing the plugs or unhook the MAF enhancer altogether until I can find the right signal wire.

Really there isn't much to adjust just a screw on the throttle plate to adjust the idle but other than that it is pretty much all computer could be massive error codes to but i don't have anything or the diagnostic equipment to check for them. All i can do is unplug the battery ground and hope or pray for the best.

Thank you any other ideas's or info would be appreciated! But you may have to "dumb it down" for me to understand it.
Sincerely
Jimmy D.
05-21-2008 10:25 PM
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