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Dyno Tests
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #1
Dyno Tests
Anyone in here has got some effective dyno test sheets with hho cell hooked up?

I have looked on youtube but the videos there are not very convincing. So if you have any documents or you know of any videos handy, I'd like to see.

I have a dyno test booked for next week and I'd like to know what to expect with my setup.

Cheers.

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2009 11:38 PM by Zipstor.)
02-11-2009 11:37 PM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Dyno Tests
NO ONE DID A DYNO TEST?

>> http://brownsgas.com
02-13-2009 11:42 PM
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Paulusgnome Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Dyno Tests
(02-13-2009 11:42 PM)Zipstor Wrote:  NO ONE DID A DYNO TEST?
The only dyno test sheet that I ever saw posted was on another forum, and it showed that while mpg was up a little, it was at the expense of power and torque.
An acquaintance of mine operates a dyno tuning shop, and he too has seen only disappointed customers with HHO who were quite certain that they were getting better mpg, power and torque, only to find that the dyno disagreed with their seat-of-the pants assesments.

While I personally prefer to keep an open mind, and I do hope that at least some of the reports of success posted on this forum will be verified by dyno testing, the total lack of posts with dyno-supported results only encourages the suspicion that the skeptical viewpoint is the one best supported by the facts. Lets hope that we're not just being wound up by scammers trying to make a fast buck.
02-14-2009 12:18 AM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Dyno Tests
Whats' your setup. Did you get any gain out of it?

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2009 05:55 AM by Zipstor.)
02-14-2009 05:54 AM
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Paulusgnome Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Dyno Tests
No setup, I'm still in fact-gathering mode.
I've seen, on the screen of my dyno-shop owner acquaintance's computer, the performance maps of several of the cars of customers who brought in their HHO setups for testing. None of these were particularly convincing, but there weren't really enough to draw any firm conclusions from. Sadly, the dyno shop owner flatly refuses to allow any of these to be posted, citing customer confidentiality as his reason. (The cynical might say that he is protecting a useful source of customers by keeping the results private.)
As an engineer, it would not be prudent or reasonable to just strap an electrolyser onto the family car without first understanding and quantifying the likely effects and how to maximise them, and my understanding of this technology needs to progress quite a lot before I reach that point.

Note that I'm not a nay-sayer, I am sitting on the fence and just saying 'maybe' until I know better one way or the other.
It will be most interesting to see what comes out of the FTC's prosecution of Dennis Lee, that should shake a few facts loose.
02-14-2009 12:22 PM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Dyno Tests
Yeah I know Denis Lee... What's new with him?

Did you know that a motor firm in the us is about to release a car with an HHO enhancer mounted in it? Look up for Ron Motors, the car is called the Scorpion. Err hold on, here is the link : http://www.ronnmotors.com

That's quiet convincing for me at this stage. I will try to gather some dyno results tonight from the maker of my cell, stay tight.
Ah ha! Here is one... in Portuguese.. Numbers are numbers though, what can you read in here as an engineer.. I haven't been trained for it so I let you read.
[Image: Teste%20CO003.jpg]

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2009 07:01 PM by Zipstor.)
02-14-2009 06:25 PM
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Paulusgnome Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Dyno Tests
Er, care to translate for us Zipstor? Sorry, I don't speak Portugese.
On the surface it looks like an exhaust-gas analysis, with and without the HHO switched on, yes?
If so this is interesting in itself, but it misses the real meat of the matter : power, torque and fuel consumption most of all.

What would be truly awesome would be a pair of 3D maps of specific fuel consumption plotted against speed on one axis and torque demand on the other, one done with the HHO switched on, and one with it off. This is the sort of thing that many dyno shops can do without much difficulty. It would show with some precision where the gains and where the losses are on the performance map.

Note that by specific fuel consumption, I mean the calculated value of grams (or litres) per kilowatt-hour, or in the US, pounds (or gallons) per horsepower-hour. This is calculated by simultaneously measuring the rate that fuel is being consumed and the power being produced, and it is a very useful measure of engine performance. When you get a map like I mentioned above, it is like looking at a surface that shows how efficiently the engine operates right across its rev range and torque range. When you can see two maps taken before and after a tuning modification, you can see immediately where the gains are, and where the losses are.

Dyno shop computers routinely produce maps like this. Engine developers (say, for instance, a race-car team) will map their engine before making an alteration to it, and then return to the dyno once the change is made and map it again. Clever software allows them to subtract the first map from the second, and what pops out is a map of the differences made by the engine alteration.

Now if one of the HHO-equipped cars that we have read about were to get mapped on a dyno, one map with the stock settings and the HHO off, and then a second with the HHO on, EFIE on, and whatever else had been done to generate the gains in mpg reinstated, what we could see from these maps is where the gains are on the performance map, and just how strong the gains are. If we had a dozen or so set of such maps taken from different cars, it might be possible quantify the effect of HHO on engine performance.

I guess this is moving on a bit from the asinine question "does it work?". I think we know that it does, at least for some people who have stumbled on a recipe that does seem to produce economy gains. I say that the more pressing questions are "how well does it work", or more specifically "how strong is the effect, and how does it vary with the amount of HHO being fed to the engine?"
02-15-2009 11:59 PM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Dyno Tests
No hablo portuguesh neither amigo! But maybe you can tell us what you can deduce by reading the numbers.........?

I'll see how far I can go with my own dyno test on Thursday, however I'm fairly broke at the moment so it might end up as being pretty minimalistic in the end, as these tests are pricey and my friend mechanic's dynamo meter is down at the moment.

I'll keep searching the net for dyno sheets involving HHO systems, how about you do as well?

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2009 03:37 AM by Zipstor.)
02-16-2009 03:36 AM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Dyno Tests
I just found 2 examples:

One video labeled Panacea on a Toyota 84 Hiace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQSjcbF6V...re=related

And a PDF from Jay running a B.B. Smack GenIV on a Chev 97 Malibu 3.1L:
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/emissions.pdf

Thanks for your attention.

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2009 05:06 AM by Zipstor.)
02-20-2009 04:56 AM
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AlexR Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Dyno Tests
My question here -

How does the dyno get the fuel flow, MAF and other info? I understand the rear wheels are on the dyno and it is reading the HP/torque of the engine.

How does it read the input - fuel flow, airflow, timing, etc?

If it hooks up to the OBD port you could be getting wrong information if any sensor mods are being done, IAT, MAF, O2, etc.

Same principle as to why the ScanGuage doesn't display correct mileage. It simply can't when it is getting info from sensors that are modded.

Does the dyno get its fuel and airflow values from the OBD port?

I haven't had a vehicle on a dyno so I don't know the answer to the above, but I think it is an important question to get answered before spending money on a test that may not be giving fully accurate results due to any sensor mods on the vehicle.

Any thoughts?

Alex

Cool Flame, LLC
http://www.cool-flame.com
02-20-2009 11:16 AM
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