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EFIE Questions
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altaber@eztissue.biz Offline
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Post: #1
EFIE Questions
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Mike: Your web site and forum post are very well writtena nd easy to understand, however I have a question regarding operation of the Oxygen Sensor Adjuster.
Exactly how is the adjuster used. Does it require constant monitoring or is the initial adjustment all that is needed. When a HHO unit is installed and the effeciency of the fuel increases, resuslting in more oxygen detected by the O sensor which would cause the computer to increase the fuel consumption one would have to adjust the voltage report sent to the compter to something below .5 so less fuel was used, correct. What is the procedure after this initial setting on the adjuster?

Al
10-11-2007 06:17 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
Hi Al.

Yes, your assumptions are correct.

Once your EFIE is adjusted for your fuel saver, further adjustment is not required. Now you get to just sit back and enjoy your new, higher mileage, cleaner burning car. The only further adjustment you would need to do would be if you changed your HHO unit in some way such that it produced more or less HHO, or added another system, such as a water vapor or gas vapor system, or something like that.

I haven't adjusted my Dual EFIE Deluxe for many months now. However, I plan to build a better electrolyzer pretty soon, at which time I will need to re-adjust the EFIEs based on the more complete fuel burn I'll be getting.

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10-11-2007 07:19 AM
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altaber@eztissue.biz Offline
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RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
Thanks for your reply Mike.

Patiently waiting for the arrival of my unit and I have a couple of additional questionsl.

How do you determine when you have achieved the optimum setting on the sensor adjuster and after you make that determination do you set the adjuster to 0.5 v so the computer thinks the O level is correct and it leaves the fuel setting where it is?

I suppose this information is included in the instillation instructions but I was just thinking ahead.

Al
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2007 04:52 AM by altaber@eztissue.biz.)
10-12-2007 04:51 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
Hi Al.

The installation instructions are online and can be found here. Other articles about the EFIE can be found here.

In general you start with a reasonable setting, and very gradually increase it, noting your gas mileage. If further increases don't produce better mileage, then go back to the last setting where mileage actually improved, and leave it there.

You shouldn't have to change it again, unless you make a change to your fuel efficiency device. Ie, say you have a hydrogen electrolyzer, and you adjust it to supply more hydrogen, or add a 2nd device. You would then need a new setting on the EFIE as well. Also note, that if you turn your electrolyzer off for any reason, turn your EFIE off as well. The EFIE in the "off" position, just re-connects the oxygen sensor line to the computer input line, as if the EFIE had never been installed.

Basically, different fuel efficiency devices are going to require different EFIE settings. The quality of your device may not be easy to determine ahead of time, but you may be able to get a clue as to a reasonable range of settings by talking to other users of the same device. At a rough guess, I'd say that if you can acheive a 25% increase in mileage, your EFIE should be around .200 to .250 millivolts, and if you're able to achieve a 50% increase or more, you'll be up closer to .400 or .450 millivolts.

Just be warned ahead of time: Don't jump to the higher settings right away. Adjust for them very gradually with plenty of testing in between. Higher EFIE settings cause the fuel mix to be leaner (less gas per volume of air). Over-leaning your fuel mix can cause your valves to overheat, and if over-leaned too much, you can actually burn them to the point that you need new valves!

In a nutshell, the fuel saver device causes an increased fuel burn efficiency, which raises the oxygen levels in the exhaust. This causes the computer to richen the mixture. The EFIE compensates for that. You want the EFIE to lean the mixture by the same amount as the fuel saver richens it.

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10-12-2007 10:54 AM
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JimBjorkman Offline
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Toungue RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
mike Wrote:Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information

Almost all modern vehicles, either fuel injected or carbureted, employ oxygen sensors to tell the vehicle’s computer if the air/fuel mixture is too rich or too lean. The computer uses the information from the O2 sensor to determine if more or less fuel should be added to the mix in order to maintain the correct proportion.

Most vehicles are designed to operate at an air/fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1. When these proportions are being supplied to the engine, a certain amount of oxygen will be detected in the exhaust by the O2 sensor, and this information is fed into the vehicle’s computer. If more oxygen is sensed, the computer thinks the mixture is too lean (not enough fuel), and adds fuel to the mix. Likewise, if less oxygen is sensed, the computer thinks the mixture is too rich (too much fuel) and cuts back on the fuel fed to the engine. This is actually an artificial relationship, but has been found to be workable with the existing techniques of burning fuel in your car’s engine.

There’s a big problem with this scenario as soon as you start adding a workable fuel efficiency device. For any given air/fuel ratio, burned more efficiently, the oxygen content in the exhaust will rise. If you have two or more efficiency devices installed, even more oxygen will be present in the exhaust. The oxygen content rises as the fuel is burned more efficiently for a number of reasons. Chief amongst these are a) less fuel is being used to produce an equivalent amount of horsepower, and b) less oxygen is being consumed to create carbon monoxide in the exhaust. The bottom line is there is more oxygen in the exhaust as the fuel burning efficiency is increased.

So, now that we have spent time and money to install a fuel efficiency device or two, and we are getting a more efficient fuel burn, what does the vehicle’s computer do? It dumps gas into the mix in an attempt to get an oxygen reading in the exhaust equal to it’s earlier, inefficient setup. This will then negate the fuel savings of just about any efficiency device, and in some cases will actually cause an increase in fuel consumption, despite having a workable fuel efficiency device.

The Solution

The handling for this situation is simple. The signal coming from the O2 sensor needs to be adjusted to compensate for the increased fuel efficiency being achieved. Basically we need to fool the computer into thinking that the engine is still burning gas inefficiently, by making it think there is less oxygen in the exhaust than there actually is. This is done by adding voltage to the signal coming from the oxygen sensor, before it gets to the computer. The amount of change to the signal has to be easily adjustable to accommodate different amounts of efficiency increase from the varying types of efficiency devices that are available.

It should be noted that an oxygen sensor handling device, by itself, is not a fuel efficiency device. It possibly could be used to control the vehicle’s computer, and make the engine burn a little leaner, and this could possibly give a small increase in gas mileage. But this is not what it was designed to do. It was designed to complement, and in some cases make possible, increased gas mileage using other fuel efficiency devices.

I have built a number of 02 handling circuits, but the basic function of them have boiled down to 2 basic designs:
  • 1) DOSE: Digital Oxygen Sensor Enhancer. This device is extensively written up by Patrick J Kelly, one of our friends across the pond (in the UK). I’m not sure where the name (DOSE) originated from, as it’s not covered in Patrick’s document, which can be found here. I got the name from the folks at water4gas.com, but I have no idea if it originated there or not. I’ve kept the name because it rolls off the tongue better than, “Patrick Kelly’s Oxygen Sensor Adjusting Device”. This was the first oxygen sensor handling device I had personally built. The full plans to build and install this device can be gotten from the link above.
  • 2) EFIE Device: Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer. This design was developed by George Wiseman at eagle-research.com. I believe it's the best design for fixing the signal from the oxygen sensor. The plans for this device can be purchased from Eagle Research for $8, and will arrive in 4-6 weeks. After you have received these plans, you can get everything else you need from various electronics suppliers and mail order parts houses. I use this design in my own vehicle. I designed a dual unit, one for each of the 2 oxygen sensors in my car.

A number of EFIE versions can be purchased at here, if you would prefer not to build them yourself.

Thanks, the Duck
10-12-2007 01:53 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
Quack!

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10-12-2007 03:13 PM
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altaber@eztissue.biz Offline
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RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
Mike when I installed the Brown’s Gas unit on my 1992 Ford F 150 pickup I decided to use the two fuel tanks to perform MPG test. I ran the back tank until the engine stopped running. At that point I added one measured gallon of fuel to the empty tank and proceeded to drive to a predetermined starting point to begin my test burning fuel from the front tank. I picked a point on a divided four lane highway where I could drive north for twelve miles and then cross to the southbound lanes heading back to my starting point while running on the back tank with the measured fuel. I traveled the exact same route repeatedly with the cruise control set at 60 mph and experienced the following:

Without the Brown’s Gas from the HHO unit, 4 test 17.8 MPG average

With the Brown’s Gas from the HHO unit, 2 test 17.2 MPG average

This was a 3% decrease in MPG.

At this point I installed the EFIE I purchased from you. My initial reading from that unit after increasing the value added by EFIE to 400 were as follows:

Black port to vehicle ground (Oxygen Sensor level) 110 mv

Red port to vehicle ground (Value computer is receiving) 380 mv

Red port to Black port (Value EFIE is adding to O2 sensor level) 370 mv

Without Brown’s Gas, 3 test 16.9 MPG average

With Browns Gas, 2 test 18.65 MPG average

This was a 10% increase in MPG, still not satisfactory.

Took my truck to a shop and had them hook their computer to the truck and they reported that the O2 sensor was running around 440 mv.

When the Brown’s Gas was injected the O2 reading was reduced, indicating the presence of more oxygen.

When the EFIE was turned on the value to the computer was increased but not by the 400 mv I had set the EFIE unit to.

The computer did not report any errors.

I failed to take my Volt Meter with me to check the ports. This was a mistake.

Returned home and checked the ports again with reading at idle and 1600 rpm.

Idle 1600 rpm

Black to vehicle ground (O2 sensor) 180 to 440 200 to 610
190 to 690

Red to vehicle ground (Value to computer) 33 to 187 470 to 760
440 to 900
460 to 900

Black port to red port 300 300

Adjusted the EFIE to:

300 1 gallon with HHO 16.4 mpg

200 1 gallon with HHO 18 mpg

150 1 gallon with HHO 20.2

With the above 150 setting I ran 108.8 miles using 6.3 gallons of fuel 17.3 mpg

I am doing this testing so I can have positive results that I can talk about at my booth in a Fall Festival this weekend. My time is running out and my faith in all of this technology is on a down hill slide. Any testing I do today will have to be on one gallon quantities.

The mechanic using the computer yesterday said that the computer reacts to the O2 information very quickly. Since the values the computer receives are constantly changing it must use an average. That is so stated in this article: http://www.autotap.com/OXYGENSENSORS/ppc...nsors.html

Many other users are experiencing good results with this technology so I must be doing something wrong. I just wished I were not so pressed for results quickly.
10-19-2007 07:29 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Oxygen Sensor Adjustment – General Information
Ok, that's good information.

First of all, we can rule out oxygen sensor troubles. The information you got from your mechanic shows that it is working properly. The data in your earlier posts had me worried that it was malfunctioning. An average reading of .440 volts is what I would expect from a healthy sensor.

Your readings from your last post also demonstrate that the EFIE is working properly.

Now you must get your adjustment correct for maximum fuel efficiency. The one gallon tests will generally not be very accurate. You have a good example of that when you ran a full tank of gas at .150 volts. Now try a tank at .200 or .250. I'll bet you get a good increase.

However, if you don't, then you need to start looking at the HHO electrolyzer. Is it actually producing gas? Do you have any glass or clear plastic where you can see the electrolyte and actually see the bubbles being produced? Is the output of the electrolyzer securely connected to the air intake without leaks? Are there leaks between your connection point and the carburetor? Mon-atomic hydrogen is almost impossible to contain because the molecules are so small they pass through some memebranes that H2 cannot.

These are the things I can think of that you need to look into. However, in summary, from the data in your last post you can be assured that your oxygen sensor and EFIE are working properly. You should get some increase in mileage even if the EFIE is not on it's best setting. You'll be able to improve that by getting a better setting.

If you're still not getting the expected results, you now have to go back to the electrolyzer. If it's not operating properly, you'll have to get that fixed. One thing that has concerned me from our earlier conversation is that it is running at 120 degrees. Brown's gas generators shouldn't be running any warmer than ambient temperature. The extra heat is generated when the mon-atomic hydrogen (and oxygen) combines to form H2, which gives off heat. It's kind of a rule of thumb that the warmer the electrolyzer, the lower the Brown's gas percentage and the higher the percentage of H2 and O2 being produced. However, while Brown's gas is more effective as a fuel saver, you still should be getting results with H2 and O2. You need to start looking into how this unit is installed, or it it's working.

Let me know how this goes for you.

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10-19-2007 10:39 AM
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01olds Offline
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Post: #9
RE: EFIE Questions
:question: to any one?? i plan on moving my EFIE DEVICES into the car dash some wher i can tune it on the run ..so to speak ha.. so by splicing the wiring with about 3 more feet hope fully it still work ok huh ?? see i now have a scan guageII which will tell instantly of the EFIE DEVICE effectivness... also i plan on trying whats called EFIE DUAL DELUXE.... later 01olds
11-06-2007 07:37 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: EFIE Questions
01olds Wrote::question: to any one?? i plan on moving my EFIE DEVICES into the car dash some wher i can tune it on the run ..so to speak ha.. so by splicing the wiring with about 3 more feet hope fully it still work ok huh ?? see i now have a scan guageII which will tell instantly of the EFIE DEVICE effectivness... also i plan on trying whats called EFIE DUAL DELUXE.... later 01olds

I know this is really old, but I just noticed that I'd never responded. I'm not sure how that happened. As I'm sure you've already found out, yes, you can add wire length as needed with no problem. However, the scan gauge, while a useful tool cannot tell you the EFIE's effectiveness (at least not your current gas mileage) on the fly. You still have to do mileage tests the old fashioned way.

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12-21-2007 05:06 PM
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