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EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #1
EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
Mike- I ran the combo today and noticed something. The EFIE was set at 2.5V and the vaporizer to where the AFR meter didn't go above the 2 Greens. When I turned off the EFIE, the AFR meter showed in the top yellow, indicating slightly rich, but with the EFIE on it stayed in the 2 Greens.
Also, I noticed that with the EFIE on, the AFR meter still "hunted". I thought the EIFE would stabalize the AFR setting to a constant setting. It does at idle, but not at higher speeds. But it did make it operate leaner. I also noticed that at slower speeds, the bars are lower and as you get 50+MPH it starts to get righ. That was with the EFIE, vaporizer on or off and no mods. I didn't do a milage test due to traffic- that will be later.
AFR meter color bars: these color changes are vertical.
Red-Rich
Red
Yellow
Yellow
Green-stoich average
Green-stoich average
Yellow
Yellow
Red
Red-Lean

Mike- if the EFIE is to be set high, telling the computer it is too rich, and the computer then "leans" out the mix, why does the AFR meter still "hunt"? Why doesn't it stay "rich"?
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2008 10:31 AM by rpatzer.)
04-29-2008 09:19 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
I don't know. It's going to require a bit of experimentation. I'm assuming by "hunt" you mean open loop operation. My best guess is you need to do other sensor mods to keep the ECU in closed loop during higher speeds and loads. MAP or MAF to start with. If you can adjust these a bit, you can probably keep it in closed loop.

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04-30-2008 08:51 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #3
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
Mike- when I set the EFIE to 4V, it ran poorly and the milage was poor. I backed it off to 3V and leaned out the Vaporizer so the SFR meter reads leaner and the SG reads better milage. I will give this setting a freeway test next week.
When the EFIE is set too hight, it sputters and has flat spots on throttle until it warms up.
05-01-2008 04:40 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
My experience is the sensor will not "hunt" when in open loop. It just sits there. One of the "gauges" in my Scangauge is open/close loop.

I suspect you were getting a misfire from a too-lean mixture, making it run rough and hurting mileage. Sounds like you have a better setting.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-01-2008 06:26 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #5
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
But my AFR meter has always hunted. Before I put the Vaporizer & EFIE on, it hunted. The closer to 60+ it ran richer, but hunted. The AFR only "locks on" at low speeds.
I was told the AFR will always hunt, going from lean-rich-lean-rich etc. The narrow band O2 sensors feed back to the ECU from within the .2-.9V range with .45V being the average.
05-01-2008 08:05 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #6
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
colchiro- from what I have read, it will always "hunt" in closed loop and read "rich" in open loop until the sensor has heated up. If the sensor ever "sticks" at a mid point reading, then the sensor is bad. And when it "sticks" at very rich, it is cold and needs to warm up. It "hunts" because it is not very accurate in reading exact voltage like the wide-band sensor. Thus is feeds the ECU a range and the ECU uses that info, along with other sensor info to determine it A/F ratio.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2008 10:05 AM by rpatzer.)
05-02-2008 06:46 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
rp, I'm just reporting what my Toyota air/fuel (wideband) sensor does and what what I've read about it. Wide band sensor seem to be more stable.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-02-2008 07:03 PM
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Malice 1 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
There seems to be a bit of confusion on this board about o2 sensors and AFR meters.

Most cars, have narrowband o2 sensors. I'm assuming most people are hooking up sunpro 52mm AFR gauges that you can buy at a common autoparts stores for about $30. They are always going to "hunt" unless you are at 100% throttle. They are borderline useless to the naked human eye. You can't interpret the data they are telling you fast enough. Those gauges, or a simple voltmeter hooked into your narrowband (4wire) o2 sensor can't be trusted very far.

5 wire, or wideband sensors are much better for the task we want them for. Some cars, such as the insight, the caddillac CTS, and apparently colchiro's rav4, have them stock. The rest of us need to install an aftermarket unit for accurate metering.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-DM-5-...enameZWDVW
This is just one example. Innovate motorsports, Jetchips, and others make similar units, but they all cost more. the PLX unit is simple, standalone, and cheap.

I will be installing one of these before I do any HHO or EFIE testing. I'd rather have a gas guzzling V8 than have an engine with burnt valves, chipped pistons and other failures due to running continuously lean.

1994 Chevy camaro Z28 5.7L V8 M6
33mpg & climbing
05-06-2008 08:20 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #9
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
Malice 1 Wrote:There seems to be a bit of confusion on this board about o2 sensors and AFR meters.

Most cars, have narrowband o2 sensors. I'm assuming most people are hooking up sunpro 52mm AFR gauges that you can buy at a common autoparts stores for about $30. They are always going to "hunt" unless you are at 100% throttle. They are borderline useless to the naked human eye. You can't interpret the data they are telling you fast enough. Those gauges, or a simple voltmeter hooked into your narrowband (4wire) o2 sensor can't be trusted very far.

5 wire, or wideband sensors are much better for the task we want them for. Some cars, such as the insight, the caddillac CTS, and apparently colchiro's rav4, have them stock. The rest of us need to install an aftermarket unit for accurate metering.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-DM-5-...enameZWDVW
This is just one example. Innovate motorsports, Jetchips, and others make similar units, but they all cost more. the PLX unit is simple, standalone, and cheap.

I will be installing one of these before I do any HHO or EFIE testing. I'd rather have a gas guzzling V8 than have an engine with burnt valves, chipped pistons and other failures due to running continuously lean.

I did read some on the wide band. It seems the narrow band gives you a range with an average of stoich. The wide band keeps it at stoich. I am not sure how much difference will show up in milage performance. So even though they can accurately measure higher ratios, leaner, it doesn't apply to a vehicle that has a stock narrow band sensor.
I have one of those $30 AFR meters. I can make the mix richer with my vaporizer and the AFR meter will pretty much stay pegged in the top red, too rich. I am currently running the mix so the AFR meter is mostly in slightly lean. The wide band sensor cannot be adjusted, it just gives you accurate ratios.
05-06-2008 10:00 PM
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Malice 1 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: EFIE & Vaporizer 2000 results
I'll be installing a PLX wideband so I can personally monitor the final AF ratio, to make sure it's in check.

The EFIE still controls the two stock narrowband sensors that the cars PCM uses to meter fuel. Instead of blindly playing with the EFIE, I can adjust it precisely to a nice 14.9ish AFR even with an HHo generator chugging away, skewing the PCMs AF interpretations.

1994 Chevy camaro Z28 5.7L V8 M6
33mpg & climbing
05-06-2008 10:04 PM
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