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Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
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Warren928 Offline
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Post: #1
Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
Good Morning!

I would like to share my experiences with others about the generator lifespan and particularly the anode, which deteriorates the most. And I would like to get your feedback on your long term results.

Goal: Least amount of maintenance and good HHO output.

After 5 months and 10,000 miles of use on a hydro super 2 cell, which is made from 316 SS washers and stud for a center anode (+)and a 3" 316 SS cylinder for the cathode (-), I found one of two anode studs and washers are badly corroded/eaten away and not producing HHO much.

Electrolyte: Using KOH for electrolyte and rain water.

Iron: Appears to have much iron bloom after a few hundred miles.

New plans: 7 stage reverse osmosis water filter, colloidal silver electrolyte, passivate metal in cells, current limiting PWM.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2008 05:06 PM by Warren928.)
11-02-2008 06:13 AM
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gtkco Offline
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RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
Hi Warren,
Thanks for the input. I have followed a few other hydro super 2 users on this forum over the past few months. So maybe I can help.

Warren928 Wrote:....not producing HHO much.

A single unit Hydro is not a big producer in the first place. I think others were getting only about 125 ml per minute at 12amps. Based on my preliminary lab tests (I am making a similiar design) that seems about right. How much are you producing now?

Warren928 Wrote:After 5 months and 10,000 miles of use on a hydro super 2 cell, which is made from 316 SS washers and stud for a center anode (+)and a 3" 316 SS cylinder for the cathode (-), I found the anode stud and washers are badly corroded/eaten away and not producing HHO much.

I've always wondered which way Ken recommended the hook up. If you are exceeding the 1/2 amp per square inch surface rule you increase the likelyhood of deterioration of your metal. The cathode, which produces the hydrogen should be on the electrode that has the highest surface area. Also, if you exceed the amp rating/ surface area this excellerates the deterioration.

Most stainless steel bolts and washers are are 18/8 grade which is about the same as 304. Yes there 316 SS bolts and washers out there but it sounds as if somewhere in the supply line someone has pulled a fast one. It is either Ken or his supplier. Otherwise, the tube should be in similiar condition.

Warren928 Wrote:Electrolyte: Using KOH for electrolyte and rain water.
Iron: Appears to have much iron bloom after a few hundred miles.

Distilled water is the only thing you should be using. This is contributing to your iron bloom and possibly to the deterioration. Hope this helps.
11-02-2008 07:05 AM
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Warren928 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
gtkco,

My unit when new was putting out around 1 LPM, it has dropped off to about 10% of that in this corroded state.
11-02-2008 07:36 AM
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gtkco Offline
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RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
Warren928 Wrote:gtkco,

My unit when new was putting out around 1 LPM, it has dropped off to about 10% of that in this corroded state.
Hmmmm, Ok here we go. What sort of amps were you running at 1 Lpm? What concentration of KOH? Did you keep these levels (amps/solution) the same through out the 5 months or change them? Any idea of the temperature at the amp rating? Is it a single hydro or dual? Any idea what was your MPG base/stock, MPG beginning HHO, and MPG after 5 months HHO? (trying to see if the deterioration rate is linear) Any info you can supply will help forum members analyze your situation.

Oh yes, not that this has anything to do with your deterioration issue but we are always curious about successful usage. What is the car's, engine liters, age/miles and year. Are you running any other mods?
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2008 08:33 AM by gtkco.)
11-02-2008 08:31 AM
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Warren928 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
It was generating 2 LPM per cell x 2 cells
gtkco,


I was running 8-10 amps per cell, 3 flakes per cell of KOH, concentration momentarilly went up to 15 flakes for 400 miles.
Before the HHO generator: 12.5 mpg, After: 18.5 mpg, after 5 months: No gain, needs new anodes? and cathode cylinder cleaning.

Definately more power and mpg, but I also put in an EFIE and tuned it too.

No idea on temp, but it was in the open air grille, not under the hood. I used to touch it and it felt under 100 degrees most of the time.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2008 05:08 PM by Warren928.)
11-02-2008 09:23 AM
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Zolar1 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
Flakes? I use spoonfuls!

No matter what you use for electrodes, you periodically have to disassemble your cell and clean it. I was getting 'soap foam' in mine. I cleaned it, refilled it, and no more foam. And that was after about 4-5 weeks.
11-02-2008 03:46 PM
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gtkco Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
First of all, congrats on your 50% gain. Well Warren, unfortunately we don't have a great deal of long term data regarding SS longevity and HHO generators. If your tube does not look as pitted/corroded as the washers, nuts and bolts then it is possible that they are 18/8 SS and not 316. 18/8 is so common for these types of parts it would be very easy for a substitution by mistake or by guile. If both look equally beat up then the only thing I know for sure is that rain water is an absolute no no. Rain water has all kinds of other things in it. How much this might effect SS long term it is hard to say. One guy with the hydro had been running his for at least four months and was always taking it out and cleaning it because of foaming problems. He never reported any deterioration. He was using distilled water however. That's about all I can tell you. Sorry to hear about your corrosion because the Hydro isn't cheap.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2008 07:20 PM by gtkco.)
11-03-2008 05:33 AM
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Warren928 Offline
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RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
Well, after looking at the anode on one of these units, the rust looked like what I have seen on 7- 9 year steel car bodies, some exfoliation of the used up metal, and its definately not 316L but some other cheaper metal that electrolysis and lye just ate up. Fortunately, the cathodes and the 2nd cell look normal, very light surface rust, mostly from the bad cell.
11-04-2008 05:11 PM
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Zolar1 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
High plate voltage + strong electrolyte = high amps + heavy rusting
11-04-2008 05:42 PM
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Warren928 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Generator lifespan and Anode corrosion problems
Zolar,
I have heard from a few people that its more the voltage (above 5 volts), not the amps that is the problem. 8 to 10 amps shouldn't be a problem at lower voltage, right?

Does HHO production stay the same with 1/4 the voltage and same amperage? Its been said that anything beyond 3 volts is just wasted heat with no further HHO production.

You take 2 cells in parallel drawing 12v/ 9 amps= 216 watts. Put them in series with the same amount of electrolyte, and in theory you are now at 6v/9amps = 108 watts. My goal is to convert from 12 v setups down to 3 volt setups, which only would take 27 watts a piece.
11-04-2008 05:57 PM
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