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H2 Results
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Gary Offline
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Post: #1
H2 Results
I finally have a working experiment going.
My experiments are being done on my truck, 2000 Silverado 5.3 - output is 340ml/min. H2 @ around 20 amps. Here is what I found on this trip:
The trip down was as I'd posted, a disaster of FE. So I disconnected the battery overnight in Hinesville with the pos lead grounded and started over. I cleaned and refilled the tank with distilled and baking soda to 24 amps hot. (I forgot to take the NaOH)
I then drove back the 300 miles making changes every 50-60 miles. Going by the ScanGauge and resetting the current trip meter each time:
Flatland
70mph, 24A, 19.2 mpg
Slight Rise and Fall
75mph, 24A, 17.5 mpg
Easy Hills
70mph, 22A, 18.5mpg
70mph, 00A, 19.2mpg
Medium Hills
70mph, 00A, 21 mpg
70mph, 00A, 19.6mpg including 6 mile traffic jam.
Trip total by fueling:
18.6 mpg = .6 more than we ever got. I attribute this to the iridium plugs I put in earlier, or tailwind. Evidently, the milage would have been even better if I had not used the separator at all. The ScanGauge was finally close to mileage actuals: it was only .2 gals off when I filled up, but a bit high on mileage actuals.
This shows me that small amounts of H2 do not work on a V-8 and the amps kill FE, not being overcome by efficiency improvements.
Next: I'll build a 4N2 separator for more efficiency and try that. If it doesn't work on the truck, I'll try it in the 4 banger and be done with the experimenting on it.
(This post was last modified: 12-27-2008 04:37 PM by Gary.)
12-27-2008 04:35 PM
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gtkco Offline
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Post: #2
RE: H2 Results
Good work on the data Gary. But that is not looking very promising.Sad BTW, hope you had a nice holiday. I haven't been able to do much the past few weeks. Life keeps getting in the way, imagine that.Shocked
01-06-2009 07:50 PM
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Liveguy Offline
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Post: #3
RE: H2 Results
(01-06-2009 07:50 PM)gtkco Wrote:  Good work on the data Gary. But that is not looking very promising.Sad BTW, hope you had a nice holiday. I haven't been able to do much the past few weeks. Life keeps getting in the way, imagine that.Shocked

Listen Gary, your driving a 5.3 litre engine beast and you thought that .300+ ml of H2 would make a difference? You need alot more than that mate to get decent results. I'm not being funny but pump in a litre of H2 and you might be getting somewhere.

Just my thought, good work though
Dom
01-20-2009 07:01 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: H2 Results
No, I never thot it would work, but have to try coming up from the bottom first. And the unit was my experimental design made from scrap SS I had left over, so it became 3 cells only. And it DOES work, as a virtually 100% separator.
Unfortunately I may be leaving for school over in San Antonio, to get requalified for trucking and will be indisposed from further experimentation for some time.
01-20-2009 07:28 AM
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bsmart Offline
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Post: #5
RE: H2 Results
H2 & Acetone results on
2001, 3.5L V6 Isuzu Trooper
daily driving, routine routes and speeds.
Mixture of secondary roads and city driving.
Ethanol FREE gas.

No additives typical mileage - 15.0 mpg

Acetone 2 oz./10 gal. fuel 1st tank - 15.8 mpg
Acetone 2 oz./ 10 gal. fuel 2nd tank - 15.8 mpg
" " " " 3rd tank - 15.9 mpg
" " " " 4th tank - 16.1 mpg

Hydranox 5000 H2 generator running about 3 Amps
1st tank - 17.4 mpg
" " " 2nd tank - 17.5 mpg
" " " 3rd tank - 18.7 mpg developed rough idle
I discovered that acetone addition stops rough idle problem

Replaced pre-CAT O2 sensors
Home built H2 generator (wet cell) 4th tank - 17.1 mpg rough idle
" " " " 5th tank - 17.4 mpg rough idle
tried using 92 Octane fuel mix to eliminate rough idle..... no success,
added acetone again, rough idle corrected.
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2009 09:35 AM by bsmart.)
07-29-2009 10:01 AM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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Post: #6
RE: H2 Results
bsmart, it sounds like you need to take advantage of the Cash for Clunkers program. Check it out on http://www.cars.gov Smile

My Car:
2006 Toyota Solara 2.4L 4cyl.
-Aftermarket (JPP) header
-DNX exhaust
-Injen Short-Ram Intake (SRI)

Add yourself to the HHO member map!!
07-30-2009 08:59 AM
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bsmart Offline
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Post: #7
RE: H2 Results
(07-29-2009 10:01 AM)bsmart Wrote:  H2 & Acetone results on
2001, 3.5L V6 Isuzu Trooper
daily driving, routine routes and speeds.
Mixture of secondary roads and city driving.
Ethanol FREE gas.

No additives typical mileage - 15.0 mpg

Acetone 2 oz./10 gal. fuel 1st tank - 15.8 mpg
Acetone 2 oz./ 10 gal. fuel 2nd tank - 15.8 mpg
" " " " 3rd tank - 15.9 mpg
" " " " 4th tank - 16.1 mpg

Hydranox 5000 H2 generator running about 3 Amps
1st tank - 17.4 mpg
" " " 2nd tank - 17.5 mpg
" " " 3rd tank - 18.7 mpg developed rough idle
I discovered that acetone addition stops rough idle problem

Replaced pre-CAT O2 sensors
Home built H2 generator (wet cell) 4th tank - 17.1 mpg rough idle
" " " " 5th tank - 17.4 mpg rough idle
tried using 92 Octane fuel mix to eliminate rough idle..... no success,
added acetone again, rough idle corrected.

UPDATE 8/15/09

Running my home built H2 generator (modeled after Hydrodines H2 generator on this Forum) and the Hydranox 5000 in parallel, combined for about 7.5 amps current draw at 13.5 vdc.

1st tank - 337 miles consumed 19.5 gal of fuel.........17.2 mpg.

Not at all what I had hoped for in fuel mileage. This is a disappointment. I'm gonna go another tank on this configuration an see if it is consistent. If so, I'll change my gameplan going forward.
08-17-2009 09:23 AM
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bsmart Offline
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Post: #8
RE: H2 Results
After some time running my 2nd generation home built H2 generator on my 2001 Trooper, my best mpg's during daily driving is 18.5 mpg (using Hydranox 5000 unit only). This is running my typical weekly routes around town etc. I made a long interstate trip with the generator running, but the results weren't there. No noticable improvment.

The other thing that recently happened after several weeks of operating with H2 only......the 01' started idling roughly, and wanting to die at stop lights. It also stumbled rpms when coasting downhill with no throttle being applied. This is most undesireable.

BUT, I've discovered that by adding Acetone, 2 oz/10 gal of gas to the fuel tank, this annoying problem is eliminated !!

I also learned that the new O2 sensors didn't seem to help with these problems, or help improve mpg's. In fact, my mpg's are down by about 1 after new sensors were installed. I'll leave them in to see if that improves over time until about the Fall. If not, I'll put the originals back in.

Now, I've added a second H2 generator to the 01' to see if more H2 gas production will continue to improve mpg's or not. It looks like I'll have to continue to add Acetone to keep the rough idle away.

UPDATE 8/20/09

I've been running the 2 H2 generators in parallel for several weeks now, and the rough idle has returned with a vengance!! The mpg's are steady for city/hwy mixed driving at about 17.2 mpg. That's just a couple mpg better than normal, so I'm not happy with the results.

I have a theory about the rough idle and would like to hear from knowledgable ISUZU owners, their opinion about this. I've read that the 2000 and later models of Trooper have an ion sensing system used to adjust spark advance. The special spark plugs used in these troopers measure the spark chamber gases after combustion to determine if the advance is correctly set. The plug is responsible for making the resistance measurement of the gases. I'm curious if the addition of H2 gas to the mix of gasoline and air is confusing the ion sensing system to the point of improper performance??? Any thoughts about this ?? Please chime in.

The reason I'm thinking along this line.........my 99' Trooper does NOT act this way with H2 being added to the intake. It does not idle rough at any point. It doesn't have this ion sensing system on it. That's the only significant difference in the two vehicles emissions systems that I'm aware of.

I plan to go to the auto parts store tonight and check out the cause of the CEL.
08-20-2009 09:29 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #9
RE: H2 Results
My opinion is that the H2 isn't flammable or plentiful enough alone to make a difference. Comparatively, the moderate success of low-amp "sweet spots" with HHO indicates that H2 doesn't compete with the more combustible mix of HHO. Your results are becoming typical, in the limited field of existing H2 experimenters, and I'm inclined to think that the few that got results were more subconsciously hypermiled than scientifically experimented, as in your case.
My own lack of results comfirmed this, using much more gas than the hydranox model can produce. I've built 4 different generators, from that model to a 12-tube, to the big dry cell model with good output, my best one.
I'd guess that your trooper could attain 3-6mpg more with HHO in the low amp spot, once found.
Until your wife drives it.
08-20-2009 02:00 PM
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bsmart Offline
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Post: #10
RE: H2 Results
(08-20-2009 09:29 AM)bsmart Wrote:  After some time running my 2nd generation home built H2 generator on my 2001 Trooper, my best mpg's during daily driving is 18.5 mpg (using Hydranox 5000 unit only). This is running my typical weekly routes around town etc. I made a long interstate trip with the generator running, but the results weren't there. No noticable improvment.

The other thing that recently happened after several weeks of operating with H2 only......the 01' started idling roughly, and wanting to die at stop lights. It also stumbled rpms when coasting downhill with no throttle being applied. This is most undesireable.

BUT, I've discovered that by adding Acetone, 2 oz/10 gal of gas to the fuel tank, this annoying problem is eliminated !!

I also learned that the new O2 sensors didn't seem to help with these problems, or help improve mpg's. In fact, my mpg's are down by about 1 after new sensors were installed. I'll leave them in to see if that improves over time until about the Fall. If not, I'll put the originals back in.

Now, I've added a second H2 generator to the 01' to see if more H2 gas production will continue to improve mpg's or not. It looks like I'll have to continue to add Acetone to keep the rough idle away.

UPDATE 8/20/09

I've been running the 2 H2 generators in parallel for several weeks now, and the rough idle has returned with a vengance!! The mpg's are steady for city/hwy mixed driving at about 17.2 mpg. That's just a couple mpg better than normal, so I'm not happy with the results.

I have a theory about the rough idle and would like to hear from knowledgable ISUZU owners, their opinion about this. I've read that the 2000 and later models of Trooper have an ion sensing system used to adjust spark advance. The special spark plugs used in these troopers measure the spark chamber gases after combustion to determine if the advance is correctly set. The plug is responsible for making the resistance measurement of the gases. I'm curious if the addition of H2 gas to the mix of gasoline and air is confusing the ion sensing system to the point of improper performance??? Any thoughts about this ?? Please chime in.

The reason I'm thinking along this line.........my 99' Trooper does NOT act this way with H2 being added to the intake. It does not idle rough at any point. It doesn't have this ion sensing system on it. That's the only significant difference in the two vehicles emissions systems that I'm aware of.

I plan to go to the auto parts store tonight and check out the cause of the CEL.

Well the CEL code was P 1404 - EGR valve stuck. That codes been cleared and has not returned.

BUT, the rough idle did return yesterday, and it isn't H2 related at all. I'd removed the H2 generator from the vehicle last weekend to see how the Trooper would drive w/o it. It was running fine until yesterday, then the problem returned....???? I'm gonna replace spark plugs and see if that remedies this problem. Then I'll go forward again with the H2 experiments.
(This post was last modified: 08-26-2009 09:39 AM by bsmart.)
08-26-2009 09:38 AM
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