Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
H2 only
Author Message
Jon Temple Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
Question H2 only
I'm new at this and am wondering how some are getting reasonable quantizes of H2 only to run in an engine is their design out there that produces just H2 separately and oxygen separately??
Thanks
Jon
02-03-2011 09:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #2
RE: H2 only
Actually, I haven't heard anything from this thread for quite some time. I have never seen any advantage to separating the gasses, and I think this subject has pretty much died a natural death. HHO systems work just fine without separating the gasses, and are probably more efficient without having the separation techniques applied.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
02-03-2011 07:41 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Jon Temple Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: H2 only
(02-03-2011 09:51 AM)Jon Temple Wrote:  I'm new at this and am wondering how some are getting reasonable quantizes of H2 only to run in an engine is their design out there that produces just H2 separately and oxygen separately??
Thanks
Jon
Okay Thanks Mike for answering . My intention is that I have an alternate source of electricity and I want to store the H2 gas to use in my truch or for cooking or heating hot water ect. , I have tried to use HHO but it seams to be to dangerious to compress to 125 psi and store in a Propane tank ??? Has anyone tried to store HHO?
Thanks
Jon
Okay Thanks Mike for answering . My intention is that I have an alternate source of electricity and I want to store the H2 gas to use in my truch or for cooking or heating hot water ect. , I have tried to use HHO but it seams to be to dangerious to compress to 125 psi and store in a Propane tank ??? Has anyone tried to store HHO?
Thanks
Jon
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2011 04:15 AM by Jon Temple.)
02-04-2011 04:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #4
RE: H2 only
Storing HHO is a very bad idea. A little bit of heat, and you have everything necessary for combustion all in the same place. If you need to store the gas, then that is a very valid reason for separating the H from the O. However, I don't know much about the methodology people have used to do it, I'm afraid. When this H2 forum was active, I really wasn't involved with it much.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
02-04-2011 09:13 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
laicyer Offline
Member
***

Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 0
Post: #5
RE: H2 only
H2 only to run is a good idear ,but it too expensive
02-04-2011 08:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
pfai Offline
Member
***

Posts: 113
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #6
RE: H2 only
I have not given up on it yet,still experimenting with how much H2 is necessary. I have a unit that produces.8 L/minute ( Hydrogen only)@ 12 amp draw. Installed on a 2005 Chrysler van,3.3 L engine. 1st test mileage went from 20mpg to 34 mpg then unit stopped working-found unit had foamed and lost electrolyte. Waiting to get unit back from my friend to tear it down and re-clean it to stop foaming-then will retest.
Built another similar size unit that puts out slightly less-.7L/minute-installed on my 2000 Nissan Frontier 4wd pickup. So far-no change in mpg-wife drove it to Atlanta last weekend-gonna get it back in my shop to see if I can ascertain the reason it got no mpg improvement. I am a 40+ year experience certified master auto technician.
02-08-2011 11:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Jon Temple Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #7
RE: H2 only
(02-03-2011 09:51 AM)Jon Temple Wrote:  I'm new at this and am wondering how some are getting reasonable quantizes of H2 only to run in an engine is their design out there that produces just H2 separately and oxygen separately??
Thanks
Jon

Pfai
Thanks for your reply I'm interested in your findings as to why it didn't help with the Nissan pickup. I'm also interested in your design if your willing to share. I have tried to make a module with a row of S.S. Plates close together with a plexiglass sheet between the positive and negetive I can seperate the two H2 and Oxygen but very low quantity and I can not get the amp draw up very high???
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2011 04:09 AM by Jon Temple.)
02-09-2011 04:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
pfai Offline
Member
***

Posts: 113
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #8
RE: H2 only
(02-09-2011 04:00 AM)Jon Temple Wrote:  
(02-03-2011 09:51 AM)Jon Temple Wrote:  I'm new at this and am wondering how some are getting reasonable quantizes of H2 only to run in an engine is their design out there that produces just H2 separately and oxygen separately??
Thanks
Jon

Pfai
Thanks for your reply I'm interested in your findings as to why it didn't help with the Nissan pickup. I'm also interested in your design if your willing to share. I have tried to make a module with a row of S.S. Plates close together with a plexiglass sheet between the positive and negetive I can seperate the two H2 and Oxygen but very low quantity and I can not get the amp draw up very high???

Got the Nissan in my shop this am and my electrolyte is frozen. Used a refractometer to check freeze protection and showed -25 degrees F, so, my KOH electrolyte must read freeze protection that isn't really there. I had also added a small amount of denatured alcohol.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2011 08:57 AM by pfai.)
02-09-2011 08:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hobs Offline
Member
***

Posts: 11
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #9
RE: H2 only
(02-03-2011 09:51 AM)Jon Temple Wrote:  I'm new at this and am wondering how some are getting reasonable quantizes of H2 only to run in an engine is their design out there that produces just H2 separately and oxygen separately??
Thanks
Jon

(02-03-2011 07:41 PM)mike Wrote:  Actually, I haven't heard anything from this thread for quite some time. I have never seen any advantage to separating the gasses, and I think this subject has pretty much died a natural death. HHO systems work just fine without separating the gasses, and are probably more efficient without having the separation techniques applied.



Here's my take on this:

I like the idea of separating the gases. If you look at how much O2 a HHO generator produces compared to the amount of O2 volume coming in the intake it is negotiable. But When the HHO gases travel together from the reservoir or blubber they will have a tendency to combine.
Thus you need to make the supply line as short as possible. If you are building a vehicle that is larger (like a SUV) and need to have more than a foot or two between the reservoir and intake your gas QUALITY will decrease because it will start to combine back to water.
For combining with the hydrocarbons and making a ICE more efficient you want ortho hydrogen.
A molecule of diatomic hydrogen (hydrogen gas) contains two hydrogen atoms. The nucleus of each aton (a protron) is spinning. Depending upon the direction of the spin of the two nuclei, the hydrogens are of two types: ortho or para.
Ortho-hydrogen molecules are those in which the spins of both the nuclei are in the same direction. Para-hydrogen is when the spins of both the nuclei are in the opposite directions.
Ordinary hydrogen gas is an equilibrium mixture of ortho and para hydrogen. The amount of ortho- and para-hydrogen varies with temperature.
At the room temperature, the ratio of ortho- to para-hydrogen is at its maximum of 3 : 1.
There is a simple test to determine which Hydrogen you are producing.
Fill a balloon with you gas. If the balloon sticks to you (like if it has static electricity) then it is ortho. If the balloon falls to the ground it is para.
So the longer you can keep it isolated the better. Having only Hydrogen in the supply line allows for longer runs.
I am currently building a Hydrogen generator that separates the gasses. It is not my design, but the designer is willing to share it for non-commercial applications.
If you are interested, I can send you the plans. Just P.M. to get them.

Mike, if you can add you 2cents I would appreciate it. I'm always looking for the best method.



Hobs
02-09-2011 06:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #10
RE: H2 only
Thank you.

I'm afraid I can't add 2 cents here. I really don't have the experience with H only systems to be able to add anything. I don't think the H and O spontaneously recombines, though. It seems to require some heat to get the reaction started, otherwise none of the HHO would get to the engine. I'm just theorizing now, this isn't based on any direct knowledge. But this brings up a question that I don't know about: What conditions must exist for monatomic H and monatomic O to recombine? We know that H2 and O2 require considerable heat, in order to break up the H2 and O2 molecules prior to forming H20. But what's it take to get the monatomic molecules to make H20? I don't know this. But it would be an important factor in an HHO system's performance if those molecules are recombining before the combustion in the cylinder occurs.

Oh, and my 2 cents worth is that the balloon that doesn't stick would rise into the air, not fall to the ground. Wink Just a word from the peanut gallery.

I'm interested in your results.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
02-10-2011 10:20 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)