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HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
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irishmick22 Offline
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Post: #1
HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
Ok I built a simple -+-+- I think it was (I built it with one additional H plate) I want to say the positive was oxygen or was it the other way around?

Regardless of the polarity which I need to look up again my initial question is what are you all using for the number of cells, number of positive plates, number of negative plates, number of neutral plates, and last but definitely not least, as I've had two of what I would call minor meltdowns, what material are you using for your cell? I had pretty good results 25+% with my last one but I started this as a cheap, let's test this as cheaply as possible, scenario so I wasn't wasting any money on container materials. But now that I've had positive results, what are you using? I'd love to use clear acrylic tubing as it looks freaking awesome when it is running, but you know the cost is a little prohibitive. I'm leaning towards plain pvc as I've seen other cell designs using this. Mike (colchiro, though I probably don't need to say that) said that using multiple cells should cut down my heat problems and I tend to believe him. Anyone used pvc and had heat problems?

Another question I have is true hho is a single - plate and a single + plate regardless of the nuetral plates between them correct?

My cell that did get me 25%+ was not true hho as it was -+-+- so I was doing 6 to 2 roughly correct? in otherwards hhho? The reason I did this was I figured the smaller ratio of oxygen entering into my engine the lesser chance I'd have to "trick out" my o2 sensors. I'd prefer not to mess with any of my sensors if at all possible though as it's a high mileage car and paid off I may take the risk later down the road if all fails.
Anyways any comments by the resident gurus would be much appreciates. Some of my thoughts are just pvc probably 4 inch inside diameter. The only thing I'm uncertain on is the number of plates if anyone has any personal experience or comments. Maybe I should just leave my plates as they are since I was seeing gains before the meltdown but increase the number of series cells to 3?
Thanks,
Ryan
08-04-2008 05:26 PM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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RE: HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
I'm not super smart on the whole connecting your cells in seiers yet, but I'm looking in to it. What I'm finding is that having two or three cells in series (each generator hooks up to the next) setup as +n-n+ each one works pretty well. The setup would look like this (minus relays, ammeters, fuses, etc.):

+12V----(+n-n+)----(+n-n+)----(+n-n+)----Ground

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08-04-2008 06:14 PM
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irishmick22 Offline
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RE: HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
RDKamikaze Wrote:I'm not super smart on the whole connecting your cells in seiers yet, but I'm looking in to it. What I'm finding is that having two or three cells in series (each generator hooks up to the next) setup as +n-n+ each one works pretty well. The setup would look like this (minus relays, ammeters, fuses, etc.):

+12V----(+n-n+)----(+n-n+)----(+n-n+)----Ground

I just read somewhere that the negative plates and in addition the neutral plates (which I didn't realize. I thought they were just a volt or amperage buffer) will produce hydrogen. Is this an absolute certainty that each neg and neutral plate will produce two hydrogen to every positive plates 1 oxygen? In the configuration you specified kamikaze this would result in the expected hho gas output correct?

*edit* just realized that if every - and neutral plate did 2 parts hydrogen this would be the same as my -+-+- configuration but would result in 40% less voltage or is it amperage crossing the plates??? Am I correct or do neutral plates not produce the same as the negative. Oh and thanks again to all the gurus ;o) Ryan

I know another person on this forum is experimenting with higher concentrations of hydrogen to oxygen ratios. I don't remember whom that was at the moment but as my previous increase was not true hho I'm wondering if anyone else has done any experimenting with alternate plate configurations? I'd rather not re-invent the wheel but I do want to minimize the hacking of my computer that I want to do.

Sorry Mike I know this is your business selling the efies, but detroit or whomever designed the cpu's to certain specifications. I for one cannot say they are the right specifications but if everything from A to Z relies upon them I'd rather find a way to use hydrogen that doesn't rely upon me sending steady voltage increases/decreases to fool my computer into running at a lean mixture.

How about a paid link to water4gas we all have to click before we can post? lol that way us cheapskates can still keep posting and still give you a little business? Or if you start selling those electronic valves and 5 psi regulators I mentioned in another post I'll be giving you a call! ;o)

Did I mention I used to live in fargo about 6 years ago? You don't by any chance play darts do you?

Thanks,
Ryan
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2008 06:49 PM by irishmick22.)
08-04-2008 06:41 PM
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stevekos7 Offline
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RE: HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
You can't get any more oxygen or hydrogen out of water by electrolysis no matter what plate setup you have. Water is always 2H and one O and if you separate them that's what you get, period. But if you have more plates (or bigger plates) you get extra production area so you can get more gas per watt up to a certain point.

Actually it's wattage/cm2 that is important. (Watts = v x amps). Neutral plates increase the plate area producing gas for the same wattage, so more energy is used in making gas (separating water into H and O) and less being wasted in heat. But your electrolyte needs to be stronger the more neutral plates you have, to overcome the extra resistance in the cell. If your plates are too big (or too thick) you will waste energy overcoming the resistance in the plates without any extra production, so thinner plates seem to be better (0.9mm - 1.2mm).

Some people are experimenting with cells that can separate off the O from the H to get a higher Hydrogen concentration into their motor. I think that is what you might be referring to about some people attempting to get more H than O.
08-04-2008 07:14 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #5
RE: HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
Hydrodine is working with an h2 generator.

Steve's right about the results... always 2 h's and one o, no matter what your plate config.

Even if that wasn't the case.... (+ - +) or (- + -) will produce the same thing.

(Both sides of the middle plate produce gas and only the inside of the outside plates produce gas, since current flows from - to +. So even if you have extra plates, it's all about current flow.)

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08-04-2008 07:36 PM
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irishmick22 Offline
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RE: HHO Cell Design. What you use and your gain?
stevekos7 Wrote:You can't get any more oxygen or hydrogen out of water by electrolysis no matter what plate setup you have. Water is always 2H and one O and if you separate them that's what you get, period. But if you have more plates (or bigger plates) you get extra production area so you can get more gas per watt up to a certain point.

Actually it's wattage/cm2 that is important. (Watts = v x amps). Neutral plates increase the plate area producing gas for the same wattage, so more energy is used in making gas (separating water into H and O) and less being wasted in heat. But your electrolyte needs to be stronger the more neutral plates you have, to overcome the extra resistance in the cell. If your plates are too big (or too thick) you will waste energy overcoming the resistance in the plates without any extra production, so thinner plates seem to be better (0.9mm - 1.2mm).

Some people are experimenting with cells that can separate off the O from the H to get a higher Hydrogen concentration into their motor. I think that is what you might be referring to about some people attempting to get more H than O.

Thanks Steve. The +- makes perfect sense now that you say it and when one thinks about the composition of water.

And

Thanks again for the perfect description of what happens when you have the neutral plates I was stymied on what neutral plates would do.

So basically is it all a crap shoot on your cell design as to how many neutral plates you put in? I've seen people make comments that they put in 8-12 neutral plates whereas others have put in only 1 or 2.

Based upon what you all have mentioned probably make it +n-n+ and spread it across 3 cells in at least 3 inch, probably 4 inch diameter pvc? Any water volume that is considered a minimum as far as height of the containers?
Thanks,
Ryan
08-04-2008 07:47 PM
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amos33 Offline
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You way off base her sir and in the wrong section.

HHO cell design is becoming an art. For example there is a need for 11 plate and 13 plate cells. I use 11 plate for large engines and 13 plate for small engines. Why is that? Common sense would say just the opposite.

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05-15-2012 08:08 AM
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