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HHO Not doing the trick!
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hiddengiant Offline
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Post: #1
HHO Not doing the trick!
HELP! HELP!

Okay, here's what I have going:

2000 Toyota Corolla, 1.8 Automatic (never again!)

I built a nice HHO generator (aka Juicer, that's my name for it) with four stainless plate and it's generating some good gas. I'm using a jar system a little bigger than the mason jar because of the four plates heating things up too much.

I have an Efie basic board and I know I have it hooked up correctly. I've experimented with settings from under .200 to around .400 (don't wanna go any higher than that.)

So far I'm only using 1 HHO line and I've sent it to three different locations:

1s location: Just after the PCV Valve where it comes off the engine. I tapped into that line. This goes downward into the intake manifold (at least I think it does). I get good vacum and haven't sucked anything into my engine. I'm being very careful about that and monitoring all the time.

2nd location: There's a PCV hose that goes into the top of my engine. I tried that. Not much vacum on that line.

3rd location: I drilled a hole into my air filter housing in a location just prior to the MAF. Not much vacum there either.

4' of 1/4 rubber hose to carry the gas to the intake manifold.

I've tested all three scenarios on the highway with absolutely no increase in mileage. I've tweaked the efie and burned a lot of gas doing this.

I have a Scan guage hooked up too so I can at least get a feel if it's working pretty quick.

Oh yeah, my juicer is hooked up with a relay and a 20 amp fuse which blows if I get too much baking soda in it.

Distilled water too.

Any ideas???????

Thanks!

Tim in Nashville
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2008 01:00 PM by hiddengiant.)
05-09-2008 12:58 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
I feel your pain.

How much current are you running on your cell?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-09-2008 01:08 PM
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jksav7 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
Me too!

The answer is to not lose heart, but to keep experimenting. How much gas does your generator produce, and how many amps is it drawing? Is your generator leaking at any point? Are you sure the gas is getting into the intake? Are you sure the gas is volitile? I've heard that baking soda can cause other gases other than hydroxy, so the easiest way to determine volitility is to light off those bubbles in a separate open container with the hose deeply submerged in water. They should pop quite loudly. The gas your generator is producing is probably fine, though, but it's good to eliminate all the possible errors in the system.

The 2'nd location you described probably isn't anything to do with the PCV system if it's not pulling much vacuum.

Do you have a air valve on your generator that allows air to be sucked into it when it's put under vacuum by the PCV intake line? I ask because you said that no fluid gets sucked from the generator, but it should get sucked out under the kind of pressure the PVC line will put on it. Not that this has anything to do with your lack of mileage results, but you never know.






colchiro Wrote:I feel your pain.

How much current are you running on your cell?
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2008 01:30 PM by jksav7.)
05-09-2008 01:29 PM
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jksav7 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
One more thing. I don't know how much I trust the Scangauge for giving me intant mileage read-outs. I'm not saying it doesn't do the job, but I've been a bit discouraged with my own lack of results in my Saturn. I can't say that I ever burned through a solid 200-300 miles of gasoline at one time without making changes to the system or having long idling periods while I was dinking around with it. Just recently, in my last two tanks of gas, I have been seeing about a 5-10% increase. I haven't made any changes or had idling time during these last two tanks. I can't say for sure that it's not something else that's giving me that increase, such as different blend of fuel, etc, but I do think that the generator is giving me that increase. However, my Scangauge really doesn't tell me any different when I do test runs of 1 mile or so over a specific point in the road. Running the tank down and filling up is the best way to determine mileage gains or losses.
05-09-2008 01:37 PM
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hiddengiant Offline
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Post: #5
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
Thanks for the support:

I stuck the end of my hose in a jar of water. No bubbles but the juicer is really percolating. It looks like is making gas. I'm not running the engine at that point, just letting the thing percolate with the key on. I waited about 3-4 minutes for some bubbles to appear but none did. I used distilled water and 1/4 tsp of baking soda. I'll check it again. Maybe I need more baking soda. Or Xylene. Juuuuuuuuuuuust kidding!!

BTW, I'm testing with 40 mile runs. I'm not depending on the scan guage for definitive results but I know what the scan guage reads all the time under normal conditions without any of this stuff installed. So I'm watching how it reacts going up hill, in particular, that's where I can really watch my mileage go in the toilet.

Later

Tim


jksav7 Wrote:Me too!

The answer is to not lose heart, but to keep experimenting. How much gas does your generator produce, and how many amps is it drawing? Is your generator leaking at any point? Are you sure the gas is getting into the intake? Are you sure the gas is volitile? I've heard that baking soda can cause other gases other than hydroxy, so the easiest way to determine volitility is to light off those bubbles in a separate open container with the hose deeply submerged in water. They should pop quite loudly. The gas your generator is producing is probably fine, though, but it's good to eliminate all the possible errors in the system.

The 2'nd location you described probably isn't anything to do with the PCV system if it's not pulling much vacuum.

Do you have a air valve on your generator that allows air to be sucked into it when it's put under vacuum by the PCV intake line? I ask because you said that no fluid gets sucked from the generator, but it should get sucked out under the kind of pressure the PVC line will put on it. Not that this has anything to do with your lack of mileage results, but you never know.






colchiro Wrote:I feel your pain.

How much current are you running on your cell?
05-09-2008 02:06 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #6
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
Tim, something is wrong there. Do you have a check valve or something between the cell and the hose going to the engine? If so, is it backwards?

Do you have an ammeter installed in series with your cell so you know how much current it's producing? You should have between 10 and 20 amps when it's warmed up.

Some people here would ask how much gas you produce by inverting a bottle full of water in a pail and feeding your output tube into the bottle and timing how long it takes for the bottle to fill with air. Sounds like you're producing ZERO. Hmm

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-09-2008 02:17 PM
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hiddengiant Offline
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Post: #7
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
I must have leaks!

AND

I must be missing something.

Should my generator have 1 openeing for the hose and that's it? So it would build up pressure and push the gas out to the bubbler? Then from the bubbler to my engine? Do I have the right? I don't need a pressure release valve?

Thanks

Tim


colchiro Wrote:Tim, something is wrong there. Do you have a check valve or something between the cell and the hose going to the engine? If so, is it backwards?

Do you have an ammeter installed in series with your cell so you know how much current it's producing? You should have between 10 and 20 amps when it's warmed up.

Some people here would ask how much gas you produce by inverting a bottle full of water in a pail and feeding your output tube into the bottle and timing how long it takes for the bottle to fill with air. Sounds like you're producing ZERO. Hmm
05-09-2008 03:21 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #8
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
Assuming you only have one container (no water reservoir to feed it), you should only have an outlet and a hole to add water (my system has a rubber cork for that).

You're ignoring my questions. Hmm

Do you have a flash arrestor or something else between the engine and the cell (the output hose), something that could be installed backwards or is plugged?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-09-2008 03:29 PM
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hiddengiant Offline
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Post: #9
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your questions. My brain is in hyper mode trying to figure this stuff out...so no I don't have anything between the container and the engine. No flash arrestor. I'm going to the store to buy an ammeter right now and maybe start over with my cel. If I can find my camera I'll post a picture. Hope I'm not wearing you out. I appreciate the help.

BTW, I have system pretty much the same as the guy who's getting 57 mpgs and rising. I do have a "dripper valve ..aka, vacuum adjustment valve ...aka, some knob with a needle point and tube attatched to it".

Tim


colchiro Wrote:Assuming you only have one container (no water reservoir to feed it), you should only have an outlet and a hole to add water (my system has a rubber cork for that).

You're ignoring my questions. Hmm

Do you have a flash arrestor or something else between the engine and the cell (the output hose), something that could be installed backwards or is plugged?
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2008 03:49 PM by hiddengiant.)
05-09-2008 03:46 PM
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wulfram Offline
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Post: #10
RE: HHO Not doing the trick!
Sound's like a bad leak somewhere. If it works, it would produce almost instant bubbles in a secondary container (bubbler). More baking soda! Big Grin
05-09-2008 03:51 PM
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