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HHO and pollution: Humbug!
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Gary Offline
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Post: #1
Toungue HHO and pollution: Humbug!
I'm having trouble getting the car to pass emissions. Put on a new o2 sensor, timed it, added 50% midgrade to the fuel (it runs on regular) and took it back. Failed again with:
HC ppm 190 with 167 allowed. (failed)
NOxppm 2176 with 1240 allowed. (failed)

I then went back and snuck on the switch to the HHO, at 1L/min:
HC ppm 137 (passed)
Nox ppm 2474, much worse.

I retimed it (retarded it), ran the piss out of her and shut off HHO:
HC ppm 142 (still passing, but higher)
Nox ppm 1447 (failing, but less so)

I'm just saying that I'm not that impressed with the supposed pollution control of HHO. It burned some hydrocarbons, but REALLY shot up my Nitrous Oxides. The possibility exists that I may need a new CAT, but I don't see how that would make HHO pollute. Elecrolyte is NaOH.
12-31-2008 03:54 PM
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mrbillr Offline
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Post: #2
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
What is your car? The year may suggest you need to replace the cat anyway. I have a spare 93 Toyota Camry I keep loaning to all my kids when they are in a crunch and have replaced the cat twice. It has over 250,000 so I am not surprised. Keep replacing frontend parts and gaskets but it keep running.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 04:10 PM by mrbillr.)
12-31-2008 04:09 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #3
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
Gary, have you tried turning your efie down? Does too lean increase NOx?

You could try 30% ethanol to see if that helps you pass.

Have you tried an injector cleaner, spray off your MAF (with a spray cleaner designed for that purpose) and clean your throttle body?

How many tries do you get? Do you have to pay each time?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-31-2008 04:21 PM
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Gary Offline
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RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
It's a '93 Paseo with 197,000mi. on it, no EFIE, no MAP enhancer. I was just running without the o2 sensor. Plugged in, then bought new sensor for the inspection. Didn't run HHO until that one test, so ECU had no chance to correct things.
Didn't think I'd need to clean the engine, 'cuz everyone says the HHO does it for you. Now I doubt it.
I got lucky and hooked a good guy who is giving me free retests and helping try to trick the thing. He knows I'm broke and out of work.
12-31-2008 05:15 PM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
With a high-mileage engine it could be anything. Any fuel that cleans the engine takes some time. One of the best fuel system cleaners, ethanol, can plug a fuel filter of a high mileage vehicle in a month or two running 85% ethanol (aka E85), filling that filter with all the gunk that normally accumulates in the tank. I doubt anything else like hho can work that fast and would think it would take months to years to see any difference, but this is purely conjecture on my part. I have not tore apart an engine with a history of hho use or read of anyone who has.

I've had Toyotas for the last 20 years so my recent experience is along that line. If you just recently hooked up an o2, you might gain a bit by resetting the ecu, but I'd seriously consider cleaning the throttle body, injectors, pcv and any sensors that can safely be cleaned.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-31-2008 05:38 PM
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hydrotinkerer Offline
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Post: #6
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
Hey Gary is the egr system clean and working? If it doesn't work that will make the NOX rise up.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 05:49 PM by hydrotinkerer.)
12-31-2008 05:48 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
Good idea. Don't air pumps also decrease NOx or were they only on GM vehicles?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-31-2008 05:55 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #8
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
No air pump on the Toy. New o2 sensor. Engine dies when pulling the vac line to the EGR, so the valve is working. That leaves maybe the CAT or my inspector told me you can get NOx with just a pinhole in the head gasket or head. Not good.
We're gonna try and test with engine colder friday morning. He wants me just to drive down there and not heat it up, says that sometimes works.
12-31-2008 05:59 PM
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mrbillr Offline
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Post: #9
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
(12-31-2008 05:59 PM)Gary Wrote:  No air pump on the Toy. New o2 sensor. Engine dies when pulling the vac line to the EGR, so the valve is working. That leaves maybe the CAT or my inspector told me you can get NOx with just a pinhole in the head gasket or head. Not good.
We're gonna try and test with engine colder friday morning. He wants me just to drive down there and not heat it up, says that sometimes works.

Good luck. I found a shop that will replace the cat for about 1/2 what Midas wants but I have been a repeat continuing customer with him over the years. He makes me promise I call him first before I call anybody else. Don't try to under cut him or he will quit giving me the good deals. So I know what you mean when you find somebody that will work with you. They understand where we are coming from.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
12-31-2008 10:11 PM
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hydrotinkerer Offline
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Post: #10
RE: HHO and pollution: Humbug!
Even a really small exhaust leak will make the Nox high.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2009 10:07 AM by hydrotinkerer.)
01-01-2009 10:07 AM
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