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HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
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hansintheusa Offline
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Post: #1
HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
Hello,
I installed a HHO-generator in my truck a couple of weeks ago. I wrapped the one (and only) oxygen sensor really good with aluminum foil. This did not increase the mpg at all, so I put another HHO-generator right next to the first one. Still no mpg increase. I use the type of HHO-generator with the two stainless steel rods and the Amperage currently running is about 2.5A per unit. The vacuum on the engine is really good by the way, I have the hose from the HHO's connected to the intake manifold.

Questions:
What should I do to see the mpg go up? EFIE-sensor enhancer? Oxygen sensor extender?
I don't think that there is a MAP or MAF sensor on the motor.
Thanks,
Hans

1993 Toyota P/U 22RE (HHO Experiment Rig)
1996 VW Golf (Future Experiment Rig)
1999 Audi A8 (Wife's Car)
1998 Volvo V70 AWD-Project Car...
06-03-2008 01:29 PM
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jksav7 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
I have the same pickup, but in a '94. I'm working on my hydroxy modifications, as well. So far I haven't seen a mileage increase, but I need to build a more efficient generator. I just installed the EFIE, which is something you should do as well. You have an AFM on your air box. You can adjust it, but you shouldn't have to. Start with the EFIE. An O2 extender will not work on these O2 sensors, as they don't screw in, but bolt on. What kind of gas output are you experiencing at those amps? With the output hose conected to the intake manifold, how are you preventing the vacuum from sucking the electrolyte out of the generator?


hansintheusa Wrote:Hello,
I installed a HHO-generator in my truck a couple of weeks ago. I wrapped the one (and only) oxygen sensor really good with aluminum foil. This did not increase the mpg at all, so I put another HHO-generator right next to the first one. Still no mpg increase. I use the type of HHO-generator with the two stainless steel rods and the Amperage currently running is about 2.5A per unit. The vacuum on the engine is really good by the way, I have the hose from the HHO's connected to the intake manifold.

Questions:
What should I do to see the mpg go up? EFIE-sensor enhancer? Oxygen sensor extender?
I don't think that there is a MAP or MAF sensor on the motor.
Thanks,
Hans
06-03-2008 02:26 PM
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hansintheusa Offline
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Post: #3
RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
jksav7,
Thanks for your fast reply. You asked "What kind of gas output are you experiencing at those amps?", I don't have a clue- how do you measure that?? I only know that there are tons of small bubbles coming up to the surface from the rods.
Is there a good way to measure how much HHO gas is produced?

I basically turn down the adjusting bubblers really low, so there is just a small amount of outside air coming in to the jars. All ackording to water4gas instructions.

1993 Toyota P/U 22RE (HHO Experiment Rig)
1996 VW Golf (Future Experiment Rig)
1999 Audi A8 (Wife's Car)
1998 Volvo V70 AWD-Project Car...
06-04-2008 08:20 AM
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jksav7 Offline
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RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
Are you using the W4G unit? If so, they incorporate SS wire, but you said "rods".

To measure gas output:

Take a plastic pop bottle. Make sure you know exactly how much water it holds. Get a bucket (or something) that's big and deep enough to allow you to completely submerge the bottle. Fill The bucket with water and fill the pop bottle up with the water in the bucket. Then, turn the bottle upside down, inverting it. Take the output hose from the booster or bubbler and stick it up into the entrance to the bottle, which is upside down. Turn the booster on and time how long it takes for the gas to completely displace the water in the bottle. Then do your calculations to get the amount of Liters per minute.

Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwMiIHieTQ0




hansintheusa Wrote:jksav7,
Thanks for your fast reply. You asked "What kind of gas output are you experiencing at those amps?", I don't have a clue- how do you measure that?? I only know that there are tons of small bubbles coming up to the surface from the rods.
Is there a good way to measure how much HHO gas is produced?

I basically turn down the adjusting bubblers really low, so there is just a small amount of outside air coming in to the jars. All ackording to water4gas instructions.
06-04-2008 08:37 AM
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hansintheusa Offline
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Post: #5
Shy RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
Well, it's very similar to the W4G-unit. I bought it here: http://water4gas.name/Order.html (It's item#1) and I got two of those set up right now. (I'll tried to post pics but need to take new one's that are max 0.5mB apparently Tongue )

Don't you need something to either suck out or press the gas from the generator to the bottle? Or does it "moves" over to the bottle anyway?

1993 Toyota P/U 22RE (HHO Experiment Rig)
1996 VW Golf (Future Experiment Rig)
1999 Audi A8 (Wife's Car)
1998 Volvo V70 AWD-Project Car...
06-04-2008 01:38 PM
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qsiguy Offline
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RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
If your generator is working efficiently, producing gas, and is sealed it will create pressure inside the cell and push it out the outlet tube. If you are not getting at least .5 liters per minute or so, you are not making much HHO. I looked at the units on that page and I can tell you that they are not a very efficient design. If you have two of them I would wire them in series, not parallel. I hate to tell you but I really don't think you will get the gas output from those unit that you want/need at a reasonable amperage load. Maybe 6-8 of them in series may produce enough if you run at a minimum of 10 amps.

I also have a '94 Toyota 2wd 4 cyl pickup that I do tests on. My first HHO generator was better than that the straight rod electrode type but was still to inefficient to make enough HHO at lower amp levels. EFIE is a must. I would get the EFIE for sure, then focus on getting an efficient generator system designed and build. Either a single sealed series cell model or multiple parallel models wired in series. Main problem with the design like you have there is very low surface area for the electrodes.

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(This post was last modified: 06-04-2008 02:14 PM by qsiguy.)
06-04-2008 02:08 PM
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hansintheusa Offline
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Post: #7
RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
Ok, a EFIE is on the way.
The guy that I got this kit from, says in his instructions: "Please note the ROD Design needs 4 teaspoons of Baking Soda and Draws about 2 AMPS."
So my question here is; can you add more baking soda if you have less surface in the electrolyte, just to get the HHO production up? Or can I run in to other problems by doing that?
What kind of system should I be getting for my rig if this ROD-design does not work? There are so many different one's out there...Confused

1993 Toyota P/U 22RE (HHO Experiment Rig)
1996 VW Golf (Future Experiment Rig)
1999 Audi A8 (Wife's Car)
1998 Volvo V70 AWD-Project Car...
06-05-2008 06:50 AM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #8
RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
2 amps with that design I can't see making hardly any gas. If you add baking soda or lye you can up the amps. Only thing to worry about when increasing the amps is that the wiring and container can handle the additional heat, you don't want a melt down. Make sure you have an appropriately sized fuse on the power wire. I don't know enough about all the designs to recommend one except the HyZor. From what I can tell most of them are basic parallel designs and I don't care for them. The Eagle Research HyZor is the only one I have detailed knowledge about and I like it. The kit from ER will run you $388 unless you can build one yourself with their HyZor plans. Some people seem to like the Smacks booster but it's also parallel design. Unless you were going to get a few of them and wire in series I wouldn't personally go that route.

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06-05-2008 12:24 PM
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hansintheusa Offline
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Post: #9
Smile RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
Cool, Thanks! I will check it out. I'm gonna do some testing too on the kit that I have too see how much HHO it's generating. By the way, when you say "basic parallel design", what exactly do you mean? (I'm still kinda new to this whole thing Shy )
Also, where can I find good info about the hyZor?

1993 Toyota P/U 22RE (HHO Experiment Rig)
1996 VW Golf (Future Experiment Rig)
1999 Audi A8 (Wife's Car)
1998 Volvo V70 AWD-Project Car...
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2008 12:37 PM by hansintheusa.)
06-05-2008 12:34 PM
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qsiguy Offline
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RE: HHO in a 1993 Toyota PU 4-cyl -but NO mpg gain??
HyZor is sold here
http://www.eagle-research.com/store/inde...ucts_id=45

Plans for it here
http://www.eagle-research.com/store/inde...ucts_id=20

Basic parallel design is a cell that has all the plates/electrodes wired to either + or -. These can have only 2 electrodes or dozens but if they are all wired to either + or - it's a basic parallel model in my book. The cells only use about 2 volts or less to operate so in this design when wired directly to battery voltage of 12-14 vdc it is very inefficient. They can produce a lot of gas but it also produces a lot of heat and wasted energy.

I'm getting tired of seeing all these crappy units being sold all over, I guess I need to get busy and produce a good one to offer. A true sealed-series cell unit that will do circles around all these other units... Big Grin

Oh, and here's a HyZor Faq Page
http://www.eagle-research.com/FAQ/FS/hyzfaq.html

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(This post was last modified: 06-05-2008 01:04 PM by qsiguy.)
06-05-2008 12:56 PM
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