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HYDRO 4000
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CitatioN10 Offline
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Post: #1
HYDRO 4000
This Generator has me BAFFLED

#1 it's $1200.00 for the unit " I think " over $1000.00 I know anyway.

I was told it was 4 inch round and 18 inches tall .

What do you think is inside ? tube cell's or SS flat cell's ?

This gen has an awful lot of good reviews ,

Check youtube , they installed it on a dodge ram , went from 9.6MPG to 23.6MPG .

I just wonder what's inside ? tube or flat plates ? if so how long how many so on ..
07-15-2008 07:11 PM
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Opcom Offline
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Post: #2
RE: HYDRO 4000
They say it is not rods. Maybe it is a set of concentric cylinders. Could be a set of plates. That is probably not the most important part of what is inside. I'm going to speculate wildly.

Little info is given except one key. It uses mineral water. Minerals are perhaps the electrolyte -they almost say so by omission.
If a high voltage high current arc is produced in water, it can be separated easily but is not efficient because the arc ignites the gasses.
If a high voltage low current is used to get mineral water to electrolyze without creating an arc, it could be as efficient as any other electrolyzer, maybe more.

What I am speaking of would not apply 12 volts at 5 amps to the 'water', but maybe 1200 volts at 0.05 amp (same power). Speculation on my part, but could account for needing no extra chemicials other than what's in the peregrino mineral water. Note the '4000 requires the mineral water to maintain a minimum current flow through the system. The ammeter perhaps measures current drawn from the battery by a switching power supply that creates a low-current high-voltage output.

As we know, the power into a good DC-DC converter is very closely related to power taken from the output. (it need not necessarily be DC either.. AC would seem to be better so one electrode is not crudded up more/differently than the other.)

The weaker the electrolye, the more voltage needed to make it bubble. Is not the gas volume related to power rather than voltage? So the current need not be high if the voltage is.

I have a few high voltage power supplies lying around (well they are in a big rack). Maybe something to try. Obviously the plate spacing would be related to resistance of the 'water', to achieve a specified current flow. If in fact this high voltage system is the method in use, then as their instructions say, you would never, ever want to add a chemical except for the weak mixture that's present in the reccommended mineral water because that would lower the liquid's resistance to electrical flow and severly overload the power supply and make it blow fuses (as perhaps indicated by references to high currents and fuse-blowing possibly caused by the user not using pure enough water).

Maybe I am wrong but it seems like an obvious thing to experiment with once I read about the mineral water. For all I know it's full of rectangular nylon mesh bags full of powdered aluminum for electrodes with something really exotic like jelly donuts in between them. I am likely wrong about the voltages too.

After all, I know nothing about the device, and I have ever only used 20KV at a few mA to draw arcs under tap water for amusement. During those experiments, there was current flow when the electrodes were too far apart to arc. Any electrolysis was not noticed, since the current was about 0.1 mA between two nails, er.. electrodes. and I was not out to electrolyze, but to make arcs in water for fun. Sorry that was in the 1970's and I don't remember any more.

If this is how their device works, using a high voltage method to electrolyze a very weak solution, it is a good value for the engineering involved, unless you can build up your own DC-DC HV supplies and the rest of it. I have not yet read this whole site, if that's a sin, and hope I am not re-posting what someone else has already suggested.

see this for fun:
http://www.powerlabs.org/waterarc.htm

I am not affiliated with either the '4000 or the link above, but I use high voltages in my hobbies, and also I am not as pleased as I once was with filling an M35A2 up with diesel fuel and geting 8MPG. My site is bunkerofdoom.com just to make it clear I am an independent experimenter.

One thing for sure, I will be watching the news, to see how well the device does. I hope it does very well.
07-15-2008 09:38 PM
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CitatioN10 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: HYDRO 4000
I believe its stainless steel wire wrapped around something
07-16-2008 05:27 AM
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Opcom Offline
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Post: #4
Question RE: HYDRO 4000
I was curious about this "pellegrino" mineral water thing as specified on the Hydro 4000 web page so I prepared an open cell from a mason jar and two leviton stainless steel wall plates and 1/4" spacing. The contraption seemed to work with the mineral water, but the water soon turned brownish and then a brown crud began to form on the surface, then a green crud began to form under this layer. I am puzzled by this.

Because I have access to variable voltage power supplies, I repeated the experiment with DC current of 6 amps, 3 amps, 1 amp, and then with a dilute mixture and 1 amp. The results were the same.


Did I fail to somehow prepare the stainless steel plates or something? What is the crud?

->added July 21 - I forgot to mention that I first tried the experiment with a piece of regular steel and a piece of sheet steel.The same nasty stuff appeared for what that is worth -so then is when I broke out the SS wall plates.


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(This post was last modified: 07-21-2008 03:38 PM by Opcom.)
07-20-2008 06:23 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #5
RE: HYDRO 4000
The only cell directions I saw regarding mineral water said to add mineral water until a green light came on, then use distilled water after that.

What comes to my mind is that wall plates are 304 SS, not the purer 316L that is generally recommended for serious cells. Does the Hyrdro 4000 use 316L SS?

Rick

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07-20-2008 06:46 PM
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stevekos7 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: HYDRO 4000
Opcom Wrote:I was curious about this "pellegrino" mineral water thing as specified on the Hydro 4000 web page so I prepared an open cell from a mason jar and two leviton stainless steel wall plates and 1/4" spacing. The contraption seemed to work with the mineral water, but the water soon turned brownish and then a brown crud began to form on the surface, then a green crud began to form under this layer. I am puzzled by this.

Because I have access to variable voltage power supplies, I repeated the experiment with DC current of 6 amps, 3 amps, 1 amp, and then with a dilute mixture and 1 amp. The results were the same.


Did I fail to somehow prepare the stainless steel plates or something? What is the crud?

Take a look at the typical analysis on the label of the San Pelegrino:

WATER ANALYSIS mg/l
TDS* 960.0
pH Factor 7.7
Bicarbonate 239.0
Bromine 239.0
Calcium 181.0
Chlorides 57.5
Fluoride 0.5
Hardness N/A
Iron —
Lithium 0.2
Magnesium 53.5
Nitrate 2.2
Potassium 2.5
Silica 7.5
Sodium 36.1
Sulphates 459.0

*TDS = Total Dissolved Solids

'Mineral Water' is just a fancy way of saying bore water. You have lots of salts. You would get a nice concoction of chemicals after electrolysis with this stuff. For instance, Chlorides make chlorine gas with electrolysis.

Drink the mineral water, use distilled for the cell. It's cheaper anyway.
Wink
07-20-2008 07:09 PM
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SAFTechnologies Offline
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Post: #7
RE: HYDRO 4000
Ya i call the Hydro 4000 people and they never got back to me.... I all so got the run around on a few ?? i had for them. But $1500!!! shit it better give me road head and better MPG.....
07-20-2008 07:34 PM
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stevekos7 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: HYDRO 4000
SAFTechnologies Wrote:Ya i call the Hydro 4000 people and they never got back to me.... I all so got the run around on a few ?? i had for them. But $1500!!! shit it better give me road head and better MPG.....

Most of these guys are just after a quick buck. The ones I would buy from are guys like Smack who freely gives away the knowledge but makes them for those who don't have the time. In the end he will make more money as well! In business trust it the best marketing tool!
07-20-2008 08:12 PM
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CitatioN10 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: HYDRO 4000
I got the Generator X from http://www.easy2hho.com and it's pretty much the same thing as the Hydro 4000 from what the sales people told me . so far I love it and they are very professional people . $800.00 for this one NOT $1500.00
07-20-2008 08:44 PM
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Opcom Offline
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Post: #10
RE: HYDRO 4000
well maybe if they see the picture and the following coment about the steel, they (4000) might deign to comment about how I my messed up experiment. I just liked the idea of using a seemingly begnign solution and took an interest in their product, but I see mineral water has more to it than meets the eye. Maybe I can find some 316L scraps. What's the direct link to Smack's page? I'm getting alot of crap pages when I search for it.
07-20-2008 11:40 PM
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