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Hello - And where to Start
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Salaryman Offline
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Post: #1
Question Hello - And where to Start
Just found this forum a few days ago and have been reading the information here and in a few other sites. It sounds like I can save money on gas by installing a HHO system on my car. Before I do that, the engineer in me want to figure out what I am doing and the most efficient way of doing it. Purpose of the HHO system is improve the mileage that the vehicle gets.

Test Vehicle -2004 Chevy Malibu w 2.2L Ecotech DOHC In-Line 4. It has about 85,000 miles on it, so it is over the warranty. Consistently gets in the 30-32 mpg range according to the on board computer.

Use - my driving is 90% highway. I will want to tune for a constant 70mph, if there is a choice in the tuning.

Options - The smack booster seems to be a good starting point. It is easy to build and I have the room for it under the hood of the car. According to the designer, it will produce about 1.5L/min of HHO.

Questions:

1) How much air does my car currently use? is adding 1.5L/min a significant enough portion of the airflow to truly make a difference? Do I need to modify the design to double or triple the output?

2) How quickly does it go through water? Do I need a 20gal water tank in the trunk to feed this thing? Will a couple of extra gallons kicking around be enough?

3) I am presuming that my vehicle has a standard O2 sensor. Autozone lists it as a universal 4 wire planar, part # 15733. I will need to attach an EFIE to the system.

4) Should I be looking at a series stack system instead? I could just build 4 Smack Cells and hook them up in series to lower the voltage. Would this make more sense?

5) What happens when I run out of water? Does the engine get confused because the EFIE is telling it something different? Should I include low water shut off sensor?

6) Will it pass the E-test in Ontario. or do I need to remove the system every two years when it gets tested. It is a very stringent test. Car goes on dyno and is tested at idle and 40km/h.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Steve
05-08-2008 02:14 PM
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Salaryman Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
Doh..Posted under the wrong category....

Also, this always happen just after I press send....

7) What about the Pulsed Wave Generator for the electricity? Necessary? Nice to have? Gimmick?

Thanks again.

Steve
05-08-2008 02:17 PM
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Salaryman Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
Anybody?????

1) How much water is consumed with a HHO generator producing 1.5L/min? I've seen websites advertising 1800+gal of HHO from 1 Gallon of water? True? False? What is the burn rate that people are going through right now.

Thanks
05-13-2008 02:28 PM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
Hi Steve. You have lots of questions that many people won't know. I assume that's why you got such a nice reception.

PWM, many of us have them on order. Not too many people using them that I know of.

You probably won't go through a lot of water. I would think a quart should last you at least 1,000 miles. Maybe some has some hard numbers.

A series cell or a series of cells will give you better results, but will be a lot more work. I choose to get something that works first, then refine it.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-13-2008 03:17 PM
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ptours99 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Hello - And where to Start
Salaryman Wrote:Just found this forum a few days ago and have been reading the information here and in a few other sites. It sounds like I can save money on gas by installing a HHO system on my car. Before I do that, the engineer in me want to figure out what I am doing and the most efficient way of doing it. Purpose of the HHO system is improve the mileage that the vehicle gets.

Test Vehicle -2004 Chevy Malibu w 2.2L Ecotech DOHC In-Line 4. It has about 85,000 miles on it, so it is over the warranty. Consistently gets in the 30-32 mpg range according to the on board computer.

Use - my driving is 90% highway. I will want to tune for a constant 70mph, if there is a choice in the tuning.

Options - The smack booster seems to be a good starting point. It is easy to build and I have the room for it under the hood of the car. According to the designer, it will produce about 1.5L/min of HHO.

Questions:

1) How much air does my car currently use? is adding 1.5L/min a significant enough portion of the airflow to truly make a difference? Do I need to modify the design to double or triple the output?

2) How quickly does it go through water? Do I need a 20gal water tank in the trunk to feed this thing? Will a couple of extra gallons kicking around be enough?

3) I am presuming that my vehicle has a standard O2 sensor. Autozone lists it as a universal 4 wire planar, part # 15733. I will need to attach an EFIE to the system.

4) Should I be looking at a series stack system instead? I could just build 4 Smack Cells and hook them up in series to lower the voltage. Would this make more sense?

5) What happens when I run out of water? Does the engine get confused because the EFIE is telling it something different? Should I include low water shut off sensor?

6) Will it pass the E-test in Ontario. or do I need to remove the system every two years when it gets tested. It is a very stringent test. Car goes on dyno and is tested at idle and 40km/h.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Steve

if you take your 2.2 and multiply it w/rpm at 70 mph divde by2 multiply by .04 you'll have max air flow at that point.compare it to 1.5 x60min. and i think you'll be at about 50%gas,i'd say that's plenty for that motor.i think smacks might require a parallel hook up i might be wrong on this but i had some correspondence w/the inventer .don't test w/the booster on otherwise a cleaner emission will tip them off,can't have that children.just my 2 cents good luck.

selling an enclosure for the rear of cab semi truck 28''X20''X6'' CUSTOM MADE ALUMINUM TO HOUSE HHO GENERATORS AND INCLUDING A RESERVOIR BUBBLER AND REGULAR BUBBLR ptoures@sbcglobal.net usa only
05-13-2008 05:02 PM
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jksav7 Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
1. I don't know how much air it uses, but 1.5 LPM will definitely have the potential to give you a nice boost. I say potential because there aren't too many things in life that are guaranteed. The Smack booster produces that output at 20 amps, which is a fair draw. Ideally a booster should produce at least 1 LPM for every 10 amps of current, but that's asking a whole lot from an inefficient cell.

2. You'll probably have to add a cup or two every fill-up of gas, or something like that. It isn't much.

3. You'll have to verify what kind of sensor you have. If it's a narrowband O2 sensor than you can and should use the EFIE.

4. Series cells (true series cells) are the way to go, but they are more difficult to build and take up more space. However, they are very efficient as each cell gets its own bath of electrolyte, therefore limiting each cell to about 2 volts, which is about optimum. You'll have 7 cells, of course. The Smack booster incorporates a series and parallel design, so it's not a true series cell, plus all the cells share the same bath. So, there is a lot of heat generated, but not as much as other cells like it because Smack did do his home work and designed it with the most efficiency that this type of booster can offer. It must be wired in parallel (not series) because it needs all 12-14 volts to jump those gaps so that all eight cells will produce gas.

5. It's not good to run out of water for the cell's sake, but the engine shouldn't care one way or another. Depending on how much voltage offset you're dialing in with the EFIE will determine whether or not you'll have any runability problems.

6. I don't know about the E test as I've never had one. However, it should run WAY cleaner with hydroxy.

Hope this helps.




Salaryman Wrote:Questions:

1) How much air does my car currently use? is adding 1.5L/min a significant enough portion of the airflow to truly make a difference? Do I need to modify the design to double or triple the output?

2) How quickly does it go through water? Do I need a 20gal water tank in the trunk to feed this thing? Will a couple of extra gallons kicking around be enough?

3) I am presuming that my vehicle has a standard O2 sensor. Autozone lists it as a universal 4 wire planar, part # 15733. I will need to attach an EFIE to the system.

4) Should I be looking at a series stack system instead? I could just build 4 Smack Cells and hook them up in series to lower the voltage. Would this make more sense?

5) What happens when I run out of water? Does the engine get confused because the EFIE is telling it something different? Should I include low water shut off sensor?

6) Will it pass the E-test in Ontario. or do I need to remove the system every two years when it gets tested. It is a very stringent test. Car goes on dyno and is tested at idle and 40km/h.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Steve
05-13-2008 09:49 PM
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Salaryman Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
Thank you everybody....

1) 2.2L * 2500 rpm....= 110 L/H of air versus 90L/H coming from a HHO Generator. That does seem like a sizeable quantity of gas.

2) Sounds like I need to build a Smack generator.

I'll post more when I have it built.

Thanks again.
05-15-2008 03:12 PM
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scmx Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
Salaryman Wrote:1) 2.2L * 2500 rpm....= 110 L/H of air versus 90L/H coming from a HHO Generator. That does seem like a sizeable quantity of gas.

I'm not sure I understand the math here...

If an engine's cylinder capacity is 2.2 liters and every other revolution is an intake cycle, it seems that in 2500 revolutions there are 1,250 intake cycles.

If each intake cycle draws in 2.2 liters of air and there are 1,250 of those cycles every minute and there are 60 minutes in an hour... then

2.2 X 1,250 x 60 = 165,000 liters of air per hour being drawn into the engine.
05-18-2008 08:40 AM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
scmx, if you're converting minutes (rpm) to hours (L/H), you should be dividing by 60, not multiplying by 60. Hmm

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-18-2008 09:04 AM
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scmx Offline
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RE: Hello - And where to Start
colchiro Wrote:scmx, if you're converting minutes (rpm) to hours (L/H), you should be dividing by 60, not multiplying by 60. Hmm

I don't get it still...

If an engine sucks in so many liters in one minute, then the number of liters it sucks in one hour would be 60 times that amount.

RPM is how many times the engine turns in one minute.

2.2 is how many liters the engine sucks in on every intake cycle.

If it sucks in 2.2 liters 1250 times in each minute then the number of liters it sucks in an hour (L/H) would be 60 times what it sucked in one minute.
05-18-2008 09:37 AM
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