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Help EFIE with adjustment
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mrbillr Offline
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Help EFIE with adjustment
Dual EFIE support:
My tag line has my vehicle information.
Maybe it is the EFIE setting or maybe I may be at the point with my HHO production is starting to make a difference. I have probably been running in the closed (or maybe it is open, whatever) loop all this time because with the HHO production from 1 to 2 lpm I have had nothing but a drop in gas mileage. I have had the EFIE set from .100 to .350 and it is still worse than when I started. I even went so far as to turn the HHO off and only run the EFIE. (running a lean mixture to make sure the wiring is right). When running at .350 I finally realized a gain in my mpg. I went all the way up to 18.5mpg whereas before any of this started the best I had ever seen had been 16mpg. Then I started messing with HHO and I can’t even get back to my original mileage of 16mpg.
Now for my current situation.
My dry cell I cranked up the electrolyte mix to a 5% mix NaOH and I am drawing about 40amps and putting out about 4 liters a minute. With the EFIE set at .100 and driving about 100 miles, when I turn it off and then start the truck it will not idle. The engine will die unless I stay with the foot pedal. My thinking is, the EFIE is running too lean and will not keep the truck running. After about 15 seconds playing with my foot on the pedal then the truck will say running on its own.
Everything I have seen is that the Ford F150 is a tough nut to crack.
EFIE suggestions please?

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
12-29-2008 03:11 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
Hi Bill. It's nice to get most of the info up front. Usually I have to ask to get that. The only missing info is if you have the deluxe efie (with the meter connections on the unit).

Closed loop is where your o2 is in control, which is preferred. Open loop should only occur briefly at start up and when accelerating and is notorious for decreasing mileage.

Bear in mind, most of us are running winter gas, which along with cold temps, is notorious for robbing us of 1-2 mpg. You might want to get a new baseline mileage, by turning off your mods (efie and hho + ??) and drive a few tanks.

350 is a lot of offset and so is 40 amps. I'd try to get your cell to around 3 LPM.

Are you injecting into a vacuum line? If it doesn't want to idle, something is wrong (like a vacuum leak) and that needs to be resolved before proceeding.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-29-2008 03:30 PM
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mrbillr Offline
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RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
(12-29-2008 03:30 PM)colchiro Wrote:  Hi Bill. It's nice to get most of the info up front. Usually I have to ask to get that. The only missing info is if you have the deluxe efie (with the meter connections on the unit).

Closed loop is where your o2 is in control, which is preferred. Open loop should only occur briefly at start up and when accelerating and is notorious for decreasing mileage.

Bear in mind, most of us are running winter gas, which along with cold temps, is notorious for robbing us of 1-2 mpg. You might want to get a new baseline mileage, by turning off your mods (efie and hho + ??) and drive a few tanks.

350 is a lot of offset and so is 40 amps. I'd try to get your cell to around 3 LPM.

Are you injecting into a vacuum line? If it doesn't want to idle, something is wrong (like a vacuum leak) and that needs to be resolved before proceeding.

Yes, it is the deluxe EFIE, with the 4 plugs for taking meter readings, 2 red and 2 black. I set both left and right to about .100.

I haven't run .350 for a couple months. I thought it was high too so I bumped it down to .100.
The HHO is not in the vacuum. It is clear out by the fender on the outside of the filter element.
I can turn everything off, HHO and EFIE, and it runs ok. I can turn the EFIE off and leave the HHO on and there is not an issue with the idle. I can run the EFIE and turn the HHO off and it is ok too. Or, I can run the EFIE and the HHO below 2 lpm and it is ok. But when I crank up the HHO to 4 lpm then I have the warm idle problem when started, but after 15 seconds or so then it is ok again. It then idles fine.

The reason I started cranking up the HHO output is in response to the new Bob Boyce cell. His test vehicle is also an F150, and he is pumping in 4 to 8 lpm to get results. So I thought my F150 is not seeing any results because there is not near enough HHO. Now at 4 lpm, it stalls out when started.

At 40 amps there is still not any heat. I forgot to mention the specifics on my dry cell. It is a 25 plate 5n4 8 x 8. The plate spacing is .080 and to get my 5% mixture I have 10 tablespoons per gallon of distilled water. That is a little over 6 oz NaOH to a gallon of water. Day before yesterday I did a volume test and it took 38 seconds to fill a 2 liter bottle at about 36-38 amps.
Also, I am in north Texas, today's high was 65.

So maybe with the F150 I need to modify the MAF and leave the O2 alone.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2008 08:06 PM by mrbillr.)
12-29-2008 08:04 PM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
Generally the o2 has the final say so that works the best for more people.

Many vehicles need more than just the efie modded, they need to do other sensors. I'd check with other Ford users first to find out what worked for them. Have you tried searching for F150?

See my Tuning for Mileage link for help with modding sensors.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-29-2008 08:48 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
I agree on looking into tuning for mileage. I would do a MAF or MAP handling. Be sure you identify the type you have. I think your F150 should have a frequency type.

But, I would definitely try lowering your current draw. I think it's quite possible that you are making too much gas. It's not that more HHO is bad. It's that more amps is bad. The amps cost your mileage. The gas adds mileage. But as you increase the amp draw, there comes a point where you lose more than you gain. Try reducing the electrolyte in your dry cell to the point that you are drawing 20-25 amps maximum (when the cell is fully warmed up). See what your mileage is then. You may find that the additional amps are costing you your mileage gains.

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12-30-2008 08:35 AM
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mrbillr Offline
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RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
(12-29-2008 08:48 PM)colchiro Wrote:  Generally the o2 has the final say so that works the best for more people.

Many vehicles need more than just the efie modded, they need to do other sensors. I'd check with other Ford users first to find out what worked for them. Have you tried searching for F150?

See my Tuning for Mileage link for help with modding sensors.

I have searched for f150 and they tend to be in the same boat as I am. We are looking over our shoulder at each other trying to find out what works. Some have literally given up where others continue to try stuff. I am one of those who still has not given up.

I'll install a PWM to lower amp draw but I am not going to dilute the solution during the winter. I need the freeze protection with the heartier solution, and may even go even more concentrated after I get the PWM installed. Just to get freeze proof.

The 97 F150 has a MAF, not a MAP. I made a dual POT for my MAF, I just have not installed it yet. Dual, being it has a switch to change between a city setting and a hiway setting. The MAF is next.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
12-30-2008 02:44 PM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
You might want to keep that MAF mod turned low to around a 10% change and leave it there, similar to what's recommended for other sensors like IAT, CTS, etc. The idea of modding these sensors is to tell the ecu it's ok to go a little leaner without drastic changes, yet leave the major changes to the efie.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-30-2008 03:07 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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RE: Help EFIE with adjustment
(12-29-2008 03:11 PM)mrbillr Wrote:  Dual EFIE support:
My tag line has my vehicle information.
Maybe it is the EFIE setting or maybe I may be at the point with my HHO production is starting to make a difference. I have probably been running in the closed (or maybe it is open, whatever) loop all this time because with the HHO production from 1 to 2 lpm I have had nothing but a drop in gas mileage. I have had the EFIE set from .100 to .350 and it is still worse than when I started. I even went so far as to turn the HHO off and only run the EFIE. (running a lean mixture to make sure the wiring is right). When running at .350 I finally realized a gain in my mpg. I went all the way up to 18.5mpg whereas before any of this started the best I had ever seen had been 16mpg. Then I started messing with HHO and I can’t even get back to my original mileage of 16mpg.
Now for my current situation.
My dry cell I cranked up the electrolyte mix to a 5% mix NaOH and I am drawing about 40amps and putting out about 4 liters a minute. With the EFIE set at .100 and driving about 100 miles, when I turn it off and then start the truck it will not idle. The engine will die unless I stay with the foot pedal. My thinking is, the EFIE is running too lean and will not keep the truck running. After about 15 seconds playing with my foot on the pedal then the truck will say running on its own.
Everything I have seen is that the Ford F150 is a tough nut to crack.
EFIE suggestions please?


Bill- I have a 2005 f150 4.6 ltr engine and had the same problem. Your throttle body is probably dirty. Do you have Electronic throttle control with the IAC or do you have a throttle cable? If so that is most likely your problem. This truck is like a little baby, the slightest change and it goes full rich and your gas mileage is history. My throttle body was covered with carbon from running in full rich so many times, cleaned it and everything is ok now. If you have ETC/IAC the butterfly in the TB is not at the right position during idle or hard stop and the sensors pick that up. Your issue is either a dirty TB or ETC sensor. Is the wrench light on on your dash or CEL. The wrench is the ETC malfunction light.

I have been at this truck for about 9 months now...I have a dry cell into vacuum with the efie set at 250. The most gain I have ever received was 20mpg from a factory of 16. No maf or any other mod (although was convinced at one point they were issues). Your amps sound a little high, i look for 25-30 amps I think anymore you lose any intended gain from the load on the engine. Not to mention need a new alternator eventually. You'll need 2-3 lpm to see a gain, and you are right, f150 is a tough nut to crack.

Oh, by the way, if you have the ETC don't be tempted to tinker with it. It has a spring under tension which is callabrated with the ecu. you'll need a new TB after that because you'll never get it wound correctly.

tony.

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
12-30-2008 04:52 PM
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