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Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
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sdom001 Offline
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Post: #1
Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
Hi,
Well I thought I was moving along well. I built a kickin Gen (so I thought). 8 plates, pos-n-n-neg-neg-n-n-pos. I was getting about 1.5 litres a min maybe more, I hadn't tested this gen yet but I know my last one put out 1 lpm and this was doing more. I was using 1 teasp sodium Hydroxide per Gallon. Well last night on the way home I heard a loud pop. When I got home I looked under the hood and found my lid had blown off and the pos and neg bolts had almost completely melted thru the plastic( PVC ) lid. I don't know what Happened. I was drawing 17 amps cold( I know kinda high). Could this have happened from foaming? Any help would be appreciated. Here are some pics.


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11-11-2008 11:53 AM
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mrbillr Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
sdom001 Wrote:Hi,
Well I thought I was moving along well. I built a kickin Gen (so I thought). 8 plates, pos-n-n-neg-neg-n-n-pos. I was getting about 1.5 litres a min maybe more, I hadn't tested this gen yet but I know my last one put out 1 lpm and this was doing more. I was using 1 teasp sodium Hydroxide per Gallon. Well last night on the way home I heard a loud pop. When I got home I looked under the hood and found my lid had blown off and the pos and neg bolts had almost completely melted thru the plastic( PVC ) lid. I don't know what Happened. I was drawing 17 amps cold( I know kinda high). Could this have happened from foaming? Any help would be appreciated. Here are some pics.

Another problem with the PVC gens. PVC does not like a lot of heat. I had one that did a similar pop and it turned out the connecters were getting slightly loose, probably for the constant hot and cold. It also allowed the bolts to melt into the PVC, again loosening the electrical connection. The loose electrical connection generates heat, and eventually starts arcing. This arcing is what ignited the hho within your cell.
One way to make sure you get a tight connection is to make sure you tighten your electrical connections between nuts and not put the pvc as part of the "sandwich".
You would do:
nut/connection/nut/rubber/PVC/rubber/nut/connection/nut

Note: I like to put a rubber washer next to the PVC to help seal the hole.

You might also use lock washers to help keep things tight.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2008 12:12 PM by mrbillr.)
11-11-2008 12:10 PM
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sdom001 Offline
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RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
I'll give that a try thanx
11-11-2008 12:23 PM
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Thurman Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
I use something similar. I found 1/4" I.D. x 5/8" O.D. x .060" thick nylon washers at Fastenal for about $1.50/100. Not a bad deal. I use one on each side of my SS bolts going through my PVC cap along with a dab of silicone and a good snug tightening. So far, so good. Thanks, David.
11-11-2008 03:13 PM
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abe Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
sdom001 Wrote:Hi,
Well I thought I was moving along well. I built a kickin Gen (so I thought). 8 plates, pos-n-n-neg-neg-n-n-pos. I was getting about 1.5 litres a min maybe more, I hadn't tested this gen yet but I know my last one put out 1 lpm and this was doing more. I was using 1 teasp sodium Hydroxide per Gallon. Well last night on the way home I heard a loud pop. When I got home I looked under the hood and found my lid had blown off and the pos and neg bolts had almost completely melted thru the plastic( PVC ) lid. I don't know what Happened. I was drawing 17 amps cold( I know kinda high). Could this have happened from foaming? Any help would be appreciated. Here are some pics.

I had the same proublem with my Ges4Free system. It melted every time I tryed it. But while doing this the water wsa churning up around the cell then down and back up throught the cell again.Each pass it got hotter and hotter.The ampes went up the plates got hot and so did the bolts going through Plexeglass. It didn't take long befor the bolts melted the glass. After thinking about it and calming down, I built a bigger cell 6x6x4. that extra water cured my proublem. I also made a new bubbler.I dont know if this will help you, but try makeing it 1/3 taller see if that helps. It couldn't hurt.
P.S. 1.5 Liters is pretty darn impressive!!!
ABE
11-11-2008 05:30 PM
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Static HHO Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
[attachment=959][attachment=959]
sdom001 Wrote:Hi,
Well I thought I was moving along well. I built a kickin Gen (so I thought). 8 plates, pos-n-n-neg-neg-n-n-pos. I was getting about 1.5 litres a min maybe more, I hadn't tested this gen yet but I know my last one put out 1 lpm and this was doing more. I was using 1 teasp sodium Hydroxide per Gallon. Well last night on the way home I heard a loud pop. When I got home I looked under the hood and found my lid had blown off and the pos and neg bolts had almost completely melted thru the plastic( PVC ) lid. I don't know what Happened. I was drawing 17 amps cold( I know kinda high). Could this have happened from foaming? Any help would be appreciated. Here are some pics.
Well, at least you got to run it in your car. I could never get one of these WFC off the bench. I always got run-a-way heat build up. FYI I have a box of these PVC cells.....you want to buy any? Smile
I moved on the closed WFC and never, ever have a heat problem. Also, the electrical connections are outside the cell, not inside. Using a reservoir and return liquid hose, there just aren't any heat rises. I only get about a 3 - 4 amp increase from cold start-up to normal operating temp. Normal temp is never hotter than the outside air temp. Here's a pix of my two WFC.     Good luck

HHO-ing 'n Brewin' in N. GA
11-11-2008 05:58 PM
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Roadwarrior Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
Static HHO Wrote:
sdom001 Wrote:Hi,
Well I thought I was moving along well. I built a kickin Gen (so I thought). 8 plates, pos-n-n-neg-neg-n-n-pos. I was getting about 1.5 litres a min maybe more, I hadn't tested this gen yet but I know my last one put out 1 lpm and this was doing more. I was using 1 teasp sodium Hydroxide per Gallon. Well last night on the way home I heard a loud pop. When I got home I looked under the hood and found my lid had blown off and the pos and neg bolts had almost completely melted thru the plastic( PVC ) lid. I don't know what Happened. I was drawing 17 amps cold( I know kinda high). Could this have happened from foaming? Any help would be appreciated. Here are some pics.
Well, at least you got to run it in your car. I could never get one of these WFC off the bench. I always got run-a-way heat build up. FYI I have a box of these PVC cells.....you want to buy any? Smile
I moved on the closed WFC and never, ever have a heat problem. Also, the electrical connections are outside the cell, not inside. Using a reservoir and return liquid hose, there just aren't any heat rises. I only get about a 3 - 4 amp increase from cold start-up to normal operating temp. Normal temp is never hotter than the outside air temp. Here's a pix of my two WFC. Good luck

I thought I was doing great, built 2 different boosters both using pvc created so much heat that I soon realized I had something dangerous and a large vapor maker. Scraped it and went for a six cell closed bath design. Now I can drive for 6 to 8 hours and not overheat. Try 316 SS
11-11-2008 07:35 PM
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benny Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
Static HHO Wrote:Here's a pix of my two WFC. Good luck

Like the photograph.
Nice watch. Where did you buy it?
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2008 01:39 AM by benny.)
11-12-2008 01:38 AM
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benny Offline
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RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
Hydrogen Junkie Wrote::hmm:New2 here. pos. on either end put your cell on the HIGH side of voltage, Neg. on either end put your cell on the LOW side of voltage. For every neutral plate you drop 2.2 volts, not enough neutrals and the unused voltage goes to ground,creating high heat.More neutrals will require more catalyst. Test your water before you put it into your cell. Then test your water after you put it into your cell to see what it draws. What I have been using in my small cells is - NNNN+NNNN-(I still use baking soda for now)but, I use 2 level tbsp. to 1 gal. of water from my Dehumidifier

Close, but not quite there.

Cell voltage = applied voltage / (plate count - 1)
or applied voltage / number of cells
eg -NNNN+ config = 6 plates = 5 cells
if applied voltage = 13.8, then
cell voltage = 13.8 / 5
= 2.76 volts
Add an extra neutral and cell voltage becomes 13.8 / 6
= 2.3 Volts

Note that most car alternators run at around the 14.1 volt mark, so expect slightly different results from bench testing with a battery or 12V power supply.

Excess voltage per cell generates higher current,
I=V/R
amps = volts / resistance
where R is the resistance of the electrolyte between cell plates, V is the voltage across each cell.
Anything above optimum current generates unwanted heat.
There is a fine balance between electrolyte strength, plate spacing, and applied voltage, all of which are variables, to get the optimum current flow through your generator.

W = I^2 * R

Watts = amps * amps * resistance.
Any power unused to actually electrolyze the water is dissipated as heat.

My personal preference, as far as electrolyte goes, is NaOH, rather than bicarbonate of soda. A little NaOH goes a long way.
KOH is not too readily available round these parts.
All I ever really managed to produce lots of with Bicarb was brown sludge.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2008 02:20 PM by benny.)
11-12-2008 02:17 PM
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benny Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Help.....MY GEN BLEW UP
Hydrogen Junkie Wrote:Thanks for the info! (I still have lots to learn) I will try the NaOH next
I did not know that -NNNN+ was 5 cells I thought of it as one cell
I have 5 of these divided with 3/16 acrylic board for each set.
it did run cool but, only produced HHO for 4.5 hours after I had removed it from power. Maybe I'll try the NaOH in the same housing
to see if it will run longer unpluged from power.
Thanks Again!!

General idea is for the generator to produce HHO when power is applied, with no HHO production when power is disconnected.
When used in a vehicle, it is recommended to use a relay which disconnects power from your generator when the ignition switch is turned off. HHO production when your engine is not running is most assuredly undesirable. A generator producing while the engine is not running can lead to a build up of HHO gas in either vacuum lines, if used, or intake manifold. Any flash back when you start the engine and KABOOOM! One good reason for fitting a flashback arrestor in your HHO line. That way you at least save your generator. The rest I will leave to your imagination.

HHO is an explosive mixture, which is why use as you produce in your car/truck/etc.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2008 12:22 AM by benny.)
11-13-2008 12:19 AM
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