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Help with math
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nismotekk Offline
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Help with math
Ok, I was thinking at work today(ouch:hmmSmile Say you are traveling at 60mph, and your vehicle gets 20mpg. There is 3.78 liters in a gallon. So on average, your vehicle would be using .05 gallons per minute or mile, or .189 liters of fuel per minute or mile. So 1.5 lpm of hydrogen would seem to be alot, right? Now I know the equation goes alot farther than my simple math, so can anyone help me with this? does this make sense? I guess we have to calculate the energy difference in the two. Because with my math alone, it seems you could run the car off of it, which is not possible. And we all know that. Just a thought-chris
07-11-2008 02:53 AM
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CheezWiz Offline
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RE: Help with math
The energy in 1.5 L of HHO is small compared to the equal amount liquid petroleum.
I cannot give you exact figures, but it is a known fact.

I found this:
"Because HHO has more energy per unit mass while gasoline has more energy per unit volume. HHO gas acts as a catalyst that gives you more energy out than energy put in when you burn it mixed with fuel."

So if it were compressed so the mass were the same, then your line of thinking would be correct?
07-11-2008 05:58 AM
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Sidco7 Offline
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RE: Help with math
What Cheez has said is correct. What we are dealing with here is Liquid versus a Gas. Not the same thing. Take water for instance, when we heat water and it turns to steam, the volume expands 1600 times. We cannot compare a liter of liquid to a liter of gas and call it the same thing.
Cheers, Sid
07-11-2008 07:25 AM
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nismotekk Offline
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RE: Help with math
I understand, thanks for clearing that up. I thought about it all night, and that never came to me. Thanks!-chris
07-11-2008 08:27 AM
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johnh Offline
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RE: Help with math
CheezWiz Wrote:The energy in 1.5 L of HHO is small compared to the equal amount liquid petroleum.
I cannot give you exact figures, but it is a known fact.

Here are the figures
I wont say they are accurate to the last decimal point because of differences in gas between countries and going through a heap of conversions BUT:
1 Litre of gasoline 34.125 Megajoules
1 Litre H2O (atmospheric) 0.01007 Megajoules
1 litre of HHO should be 2/3 of that or .007 Megajoules
so you have about 4875 times the energy in the litre of gasoline.

60 mph at 60 mpg equiv = 3.78 litres / hour gasoline
is equal to about 300 litres a minute HHO
but these are just real meaningless figures experimenting is going to be the only way to find the real answer.
John
07-11-2008 09:21 AM
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CheezWiz Offline
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RE: Help with math
Good post John, tnx.
07-11-2008 09:55 AM
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hoozadoctor Offline
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RE: Help with math
nismotekk Wrote:Ok, I was thinking at work today(ouch:hmmSmile Say you are traveling at 60mph, and your vehicle gets 20mpg. There is 3.78 liters in a gallon. So on average, your vehicle would be using .05 gallons per minute or mile, or .189 liters of fuel per minute or mile. So 1.5 lpm of hydrogen would seem to be alot, right? Now I know the equation goes alot farther than my simple math, so can anyone help me with this? does this make sense? I guess we have to calculate the energy difference in the two. Because with my math alone, it seems you could run the car off of it, which is not possible. And we all know that. Just a thought-chris

G'Day Chris

I don't actually have figure showing how much atomised petrol you get from 1 litre of Petrol but lets look at LPG. (Liquid petroleum Gas.

My Vehicle runs on dual fuel and get about the same mileage on petrol as it does on LPG.

1 litre of liquid butane liberates 239 litres of gas (15 °C - 1bar)
- 1 litre of liquid propane liberates 311 litres de gas (15 °C - 1bar)

To the best of my knowledge our local LPG is about 327 Litres of gas per litre of LPG


1 Imperial gallon = 4.54609188 litres

Now on a country trip I am using 15 litres per 100 Km if I am sitting on 100km/H then it Takes 60 minutes to use 15 Litres, so I am using .25 litres per Minute. .25 Litres of LPG = 81.75 Litres of Gas.

For the sake of the exercise lets call it 80 Litres per minute. NOW the car is running at 15.4 :1 which is suppose to be the stoichiometric point of LPG. (try as I may I am unable to lean it out)

Therefore 80 of Gas x 15.4 = 1232 + 80 = 1312

That is I am using 1213 Litres of Fuel in the car per minute.

now if my cell is producing 1 Litre per minute that is a TINY amount.

If we forget about the air and just concentrate on the Gas then I am still using 80 Litres a minute. and my cell is not actually producing one Litre of Hydrogen per minute, it is producing I litre of Hydrogen and Oxygen combined Therefore it is only producing 666.66 Mill of Hydrogen.

So a 1 litre per minute hydrogen cell is producing 0.8% of my fuel.


To be honest I am now running two cells in my vehicle and think I am getting about 500 mill per minute. Haven't actually measured it yet. If that is the case then I am only producing 0.4% of the fuel.

I fail to see how even 3 litres a minute would be enough to make a difference.

Doc
07-13-2008 05:04 AM
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