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Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
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Gary Offline
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Post: #1
Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
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Delete Discussion First off, I built probably the world's largest soldering gun.    
Then the weirdness began. Being very paranoid of this thing, I put a "shield" of 1/2" Corian from my old Monster cell endblock in front of the bubbler for safety. Standing afar, I adjusted the pressure relief valve (which works very well, BTW, for a homemade) to get a steady stream of bubbles going out the relief tube into a gallon jug of water nearby, and the torch to a very fine stream of bubbles.
The torch didn't appear to light, so I put it into the jug to check and see if the gas was still coming out and it popped the gas in the top of the jug. So I relit it and sure enough, there was an almost invisible flame of about .5mm at the tip. I could feel it on my hand, but it wouldn't melt the end of a thin solder strip. It would just melt plastic, slowly. Opening the torch did no good, as the 23g hypo was just too small, so I put on a 21g, much larger.
Soon as I lit it, I noticed the tip glow red, and a flame of about 1/8" or less appear. Then the glow started slowly going up the needle towards the torch. Before I could shut off the torch, POW!, what sounded like a .38 in a bathroom hit, and even the shield blew apart. Without the shield I would have been severely punctured.
   
I'll be out of the torch business for the moment, until I can get a steel bubbler made with a blowout THAT WILL BLOW OUT, as the one I'd made on there did NOT. I'd used plastic from a window blind to keep the pressure up at a couple pounds. I think this amplified the effect of the explosion. I also think that more than a pound of pressure is needed to keep flashbacks from occurring, if it can happen in a hypo needle!
   
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2008 06:10 AM by Gary.)
12-17-2008 06:08 AM
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mrbillr Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
Cool. That sounds exciting! How is your hearing? Glad you were not hurt though. It certainly will make you gun shy the next go around. Keep us posted on any new developments.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
12-17-2008 08:37 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
Ears rang for an hour. Those movies where they have indoor gunfights then talk to each other are B.S.!!!
12-17-2008 08:51 AM
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hydrotinkerer Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
Oh man and I needed some soldering done. I guess I'll have to wait. Atleast you didn't get hurt!
12-17-2008 09:45 AM
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benny Offline
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RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
hydrotinkerer Wrote:Oh man and I needed some soldering done. I guess I'll have to wait. Atleast you didn't get hurt!

Why wait? Just try bypassing the whole HHO generation/brazing/welding torch thingy altogether and go straight to a 12V electric soldering iron. Much safer, tho' it won't impress the natives as much as an HHO soldering/welding system will.Big Grin

Flashback arrestor at or near torch? (Even better if built into torch handle). Also you need a steady supply of HHO, not one which fluctuates with the pumping action of dry cell generators. Nearest I have come to same is to use dual bubblers in series and use large diameter HHO pipe, 8mm ID from generator to bubblers. Seems to balance out the gas flow somewhat.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2008 01:39 PM by benny.)
12-17-2008 01:31 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
You may be right one there, but the reason I put two intakes and two exhausts on my cell was to eliminate pumping, as we found that does.
I'm thinking of another idea: re-rigging the torch to use a hypo needle, but this time, go ahead and use it on a MAP gas bottle, and make the tip like a bottle torch with the air intakes, only much smaller. Kinda bulky, but no, I have a hose made for that too, with a torch on the end. No flashback where there is no oxygen, which is why I think the bottles don't explode.
Another caveat: a bottle of gas would last...oh...fifty years of soldering...!
OUTSIDADABOX! OUTSIDEADABOX!
12-17-2008 03:48 PM
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AlexR Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
benny Wrote:Flashback arrestor at or near torch? (Even better if built into torch handle).

A flashback arrestor WILL NOT stop a backfire from Brown's Gas. The backfire is actually holding the arrestors valve open. A bubbler is the only way to stop a backfire.

The BG needs to be bubbled through a liquid - water - the liquid cannot pass the backfire from bubble to bubble, hence the reason it works. It does need to be made from steel.

Gary,

Glad you weren't hurt, be careful!

I've had a few backfires and I do have the bubbler to protect the machine. Its a very sturdy steel design.

Even outdoors with acetylene hoses for the BG it still sounds like a rifle shot.

Alex

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12-18-2008 05:48 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
I stupidly used the reservoir/bubbler as my bubbler, and that protected my cell, but not the bubbler, which was too big. I just wanted to use up that old electrical box I'd warped with a SmackWaterHeater.
Well, it sure is used up now. I may be finding pieces for months.
12-18-2008 06:31 AM
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AlexR Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
Gary Wrote:I stupidly used the reservoir/bubbler as my bubbler, and that protected my cell, but not the bubbler, which was too big. I just wanted to use up that old electrical box I'd warped with a SmackWaterHeater.
Well, it sure is used up now. I may be finding pieces for months.

You can see the concept of the bubbler worked, it did protect the electrolyzer, it just wasn't strong enough to protect itself.

That bubbler may of been OK if there was no pressure in it, but once you start increasing the pressure, even up to just a few psi, the backfire becomes much more intense and dangerous.

Alex

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http://www.cool-flame.com
12-18-2008 07:33 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Hindenburg HHO Torch Disaster
I may continue this project (I'm not chicken; just nutz)...but with a completely new design bubbler that I haven't thought of yet, heheh. I like the idea of a spring popoff that I can adjust for pressure...and this may even incorporate itself to be another pressure relief valve. The spring pressure could be adjusted on the fly to bleed off gas at a certain pressure.
However.
The spring travel would not be used up and in the event of a pop, would open the valve, doubling as a popoff valve. The next problem would be how I'm gonna focus the bleedoff gas into an exit tube, away from the working components, and how it will totally open up in the event of a pop. Shouldn't be too hard, except the problem would be to make it very small, as not to hold a lot of gas, which is another problem.
Chime in if ya got 'em!
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2008 09:44 AM by Gary.)
12-18-2008 09:42 AM
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