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How Much HHO Should I Use?
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #11
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Ok I understand what you are talking about. Yes, that sounds accurate.

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06-12-2008 10:11 AM
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MY99 2.5GT Offline
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Post: #12
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
As for injector and timing calibration on an OBD-II ECU you could use one of the new age piggy back computers that will fully taking over injector/ignition control while maintaining all of the OBD-II check features so you will still pass emmisions.

I will be using the Greddy Emanage Ultimate. I'm a little curious how this piggy back will work when the stock ECU is in closed loop operation.

I'm also curious what the point would be of using a Windeband O2 to tune an HHO supplimented motor. Doesn't HHO gas introduce a ton more Oxygen into the exhaust reading that the Front O2 sensor sees? How could you then accurately tune using a Wideband? I guess it would make sense if you knew exactly how much HHO you were generating then were able to determine what stoich would be with the mix of gasoline and HHO.

Otherwise you could use an EGT (Pyrometer) to determine a baseline of what your temps are before introducing HHO then tune based on those figures. Then again the introduction of that much water vapor into the exhaust stream would probably significantly lower EGT's.

So how exactly do you tune for safely for HHO? Knock sensor?

Brad
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2008 06:18 AM by MY99 2.5GT.)
06-17-2008 06:15 AM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #13
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
It's true that HHO adds O2 to the exhaust but your wideband is still accurate as is the OEM O2. If there is more O2 in the exhaust it is, in fact, a leaner mixture of gasoline which is what we are shooting for. EGT would definitely be a plus to monitor as well as knock sensing. Tuning for mileage is a little different than tuning for performance. I've been tuning my turbo Infiniti for a while now but I have to change my way of thinking a bit when I tune for MPG. If you are driving for MPG you put a high load on the engine as rarely as possible. A really good tune would adjust for max lean at cruise but would add fuel and adjust timing during higher loads to limit knock. This is what I love about my Infiniti, I can tune anything with the fuel and timing maps as well as various O2 sensor values and more, almost limitless. It's a lot more difficult to tune using sensor "hacks" but it's doable.

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06-17-2008 08:27 AM
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MY99 2.5GT Offline
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Post: #14
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
I know what you mean about sensor hacks. Ive seen some of the sensor modifyers some folks are selling with their HHO kits that change the readout voltage the ECU sees from the Front O2 sensor as well as the MAP sensor.

Thats what I liked about the Emanage Ultimate. Instead of tweaking Coolent Temp and AFR readings to adjust fuel trims (ie. APEXi SAFC) it fully takes over injection and ignition control.

I understand that the objective is a leaner mixture my point is how lean? What indicators do you look at to determine if your running the right mixture of HHO/Gasoline/Air since we don't really know what a stoich wideband reading would be?

If you leave this duty up to your stock ECU it will start throwing tons of fuel and retard timing when it sees afr's have dropped below 14.7:1.
06-17-2008 09:47 AM
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MY99 2.5GT Offline
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Post: #15
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Another question for a turbocharged application is where in the intake stream do you plumb in the HHO gas feed? Seems like if you plumb it in after the turbo the pressurized air wouldn't allow HHO to flow from your reservior. I don't even want to consider that someone would feed Hydrogen pre-turbo and allow it to be pressurized and exposed to the heat of the turbo.

Brad
06-17-2008 09:51 AM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #16
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
The O2 modifiers, the EFIE I like a lot. Simple and effective. The majority of the population won't be doing a full tune so the EFIE is a great option. The ECU won't complain as long as you don't get too aggressive. 150-200 mV is typically an acceptable offset and the ECU will just lean fuel a bit. Most of the time people just keep going up until they get a CEL and then back off a bit. Another nice thing about the EFIE is that it's only functional in closed loop. So when you put a load on the vehicle and it drops out of closed loop you get the richer mixture again, no worries.

I'm still working on it, but for my turbo application I'll be injecting pre turbo. I'm only running 8-9 PSI of boost and that is only for short durations. The volume of HHO that will be in the intake at one time will be low. Also when I am pushing full boost the air volume/flow is huge, the HHO content will be almost non existent at full boost. Post turbo would be fine as well but you'd most likely want to put a check valve on the outlet line to prevent boost from pressurizing the HHO generator or if you have a bubbler, pushing out the water into the generator. I don't think the heat in the compressor side will be an issue. The compressed air on the outlet of the turbo should be lower than the HHO unit, ~150-160*F is typical operating temp for a generator. You need more heat and pressure than that to ignite the HHO and unless you have a major malfunction you shouldn't have any ignition source either.

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(This post was last modified: 06-17-2008 10:55 AM by qsiguy.)
06-17-2008 10:53 AM
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MY99 2.5GT Offline
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Post: #17
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Interesting. Thanks for the responses.

I have read about Diesel truckers running HHO Generators and getting a few more MPG. However Ive wondered how and where the HHO tube enters there motor.
06-17-2008 11:24 AM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #18
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Airbox/pre turbo. Diesels are in boost much more of the time than a turbo gasoline car so post turbo wouldn't work too well in my opinion.

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06-17-2008 12:31 PM
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sax88player Offline
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Post: #19
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Hey, I am about to build and install and hho generator, and I was wondering if there have been any linked problems to engine caused by doing this... Basically, if i am injecting hho gas into my engine, it is not causing any damage by running with the added fuel source, right? Im doing it to a 1996 toyota tercel, and I just want to be very careful not to screw anything up or break anything.

Cory
06-27-2008 12:46 AM
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skiers4ever Offline
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Post: #20
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Hi Cory,

I did alot of research before installing mine and, as long as care is taken, no problems will occur. No damage to my Ridgeline that I can tell, no engine lights, or anything like that. Just make sure to use a circuit to power the unit that only comes on when the ignition is on, make sure no excess water gets in, and everyone recommends (so do I) a Bubbler. Once you read the forum (if you haven't already), you'll understand better the reason for all of the above.

Congrats for trying and good luck!
John

2007 Honda Ridgeline 3.5L 4WD
Hydro Super 2 installed on 5/21/08
Colorado - 10,000 Feet!
06-27-2008 10:20 AM
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