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How Much HHO Should I Use?
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Mark Blab Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
To the computer higher O2 levels sensed mean air fuel ratio is too lean,the computer will increase the fuel injectors injection duration (more fuel). The introduction of HHO increases the amount of O2 present in exhaust causing the computer to compensate, this over rich compensation happens usually AFTER the first tank is burned up AND in the absence of a millivoltage producing offset device. The mean operating millivoltage signal range for most vehicles is between 450mv and 550mv when hho is introduced depending on the amount, mv values decrease. You must duplicate the mean values after the hho system has been installed to achieve proper vehicle performance and MPG increases. I would advise checking your values by attaching a test lead to the signal wire of your O2 sensor do not disconnect wire from computer just tap into the O2 signal wire. The use of a EFIE is definitely essential to the HHO systems success. Also don't be afraid to wire up multiple hho units in series or in series parallel, less heat, less amp draw more hho gas.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2008 02:04 PM by Mark Blab.)
07-28-2008 02:00 PM
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jeff8472 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Mark Blab Wrote:To the computer higher O2 levels sensed mean air fuel ratio is too lean,the computer will increase the fuel injectors injection duration (more fuel). The introduction of HHO increases the amount of O2 present in exhaust causing the computer to compensate, this over rich compensation happens usually AFTER the first tank is burned up AND in the absence of a millivoltage producing offset device. The mean operating millivoltage signal range for most vehicles is between 450mv and 550mv when hho is introduced depending on the amount, mv values decrease. You must duplicate the mean values after the hho system has been installed to achieve proper vehicle performance and MPG increases. I would advise checking your values by attaching a test lead to the signal wire of your O2 sensor do not disconnect wire from computer just tap into the O2 signal wire. The use of a EFIE is definitely essential to the HHO systems success. Also don't be afraid to wire up multiple hho units in series or in series parallel, less heat, less amp draw more hho gas.

Hey Mark..Newbie here...going to install my hho system with EFIE ....just wanted to ask a question.....

How would I go about checking the mV's going to my computer from my signal wire from O2 sensor? With nothing done to the car yet everything stock....just to get a range of what it is normally before I go messing with stuff....

Voltmeter red lead to signal wire and Black lead just to any ground?
that would be putting the meter in the loop parrellel.? I am not sure..

or do I put the meter in series?

I hope that made sense

thanks
08-01-2008 04:03 PM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #23
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Meter red to O2 sensor wire, black to ground. If you wire it in series you have to cut the wire. This method of wiring would typically be to check amperage. You just want to check voltage. Really, about the only use of doing this test is to verify you have the correct wire. Due to the voltage swing of the O2 output you can't really record any useful numbers, just see that it is in fact swinging up/down somewhere between 0-1 volts. Now once you install the EFIE you can use two meters wired up one before the EFIE and one after and watch the difference. Again not really necessary as you can just wire your meter across the in/out to see the actual offset which will remain relatively steady, that's the voltage value you need to know.

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(This post was last modified: 08-02-2008 03:03 PM by qsiguy.)
08-02-2008 03:02 PM
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dpater47 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
mike Wrote:I've been asked this question a lot lately, so I wrote an article on the subject. It's in my documents page at How Much HHO Should I Use?.

Let me know if you still have questions on the subject. I use those questions to improve the quality of the documents.

Thanks.

mike ,i read what you had to say and then i ran acrossed this site
http://www.alt-nrg.org/
it pretty much says the same thing and between your answer and his it should put the naysayers on the offence.thanks mike for the explanation
08-10-2008 02:48 PM
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#84 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Have I missed something? In several posts in this thread you mention the phenomena of increased O2 content in the exhausts when HHO is added.

As I see it: If you dissociate water molecules into some combinations of H and O and then enter the entire quantity to a combustion process where stochiometric proportions of fuel and oxygen are burnt - how could that result in an excess of O2 in the exhausts?

Two stochiometric fuel oxygen mixes are mixed. How could that result in an under-stochiometric mix?

I understand that further improvements in fuel effeicency could be achieved if a leaner mixture could be burnt in prescense of hydrogen in some form, but I don't understand the first part of the theory.

/A

(totaly new to HHO....)
08-21-2008 06:15 AM
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johnh Offline
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Post: #26
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
#84 Wrote:Have I missed something? In several posts in this thread you mention the phenomena of increased O2 content in the exhausts when HHO is added.

As I see it: If you dissociate water molecules into some combinations of H and O and then enter the entire quantity to a combustion process where stochiometric proportions of fuel and oxygen are burnt - how could that result in an excess of O2 in the exhausts?

Two stochiometric fuel oxygen mixes are mixed. How could that result in an under-stochiometric mix?

I understand that further improvements in fuel effeicency could be achieved if a leaner mixture could be burnt in prescense of hydrogen in some form, but I don't understand the first part of the theory.

/A

(totaly new to HHO....)


I was having trouble with this too.
I think the answer is the oxygen sensor reacts to the oxygen in steam (H2Ogas) but does not react to the oxygen in CO or CO2. I have nothing other than observation to back this up and may be completely mistaken but it looks like this is the case. I would like to build a test rig to check this out. but haven't had time yet.
There may also be a difference in what is detected as free oxygen between brands or types of sensors. Some cars seem to get worse milage immediately on installing a generator and others do not.
The bottom line is it seems as if we can with reasonable safety run leaner hydrocarbon mixtures if we add a small amount of HHO. One way of achieving this is to vary the signal from the oxygen sensor even if it is not detecting any extra oxygen. Once again this seems to be dependant on types of oxygen sensors or ECM equipment in the particular vehicle.
08-21-2008 10:01 AM
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#84 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Well, I recently read this http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forum...php?t=3127 on the forum connected to Innovate motorstport's webpage. (NBO2 = NarrowBand O2 sensor)

Both Innovate Motorsport, which is awarded for their lambda monitoring devices, and the "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" by Heywood are serious sources. And since different "normal" fuels results in different fractions of H2O and CO/CO2 after combustion I would be surprised if the lambda sensor wouldn't handle that. Take a flexifuel car for example.

However a quick check in Heywood's book gives the information that it is a solid state electrolyse that creates the lambda sensor signal and I suppose it could be trigged by more than O2 as electrolyte. Or?

/A

johnh Wrote:I think the answer is the oxygen sensor reacts to the oxygen in steam (H2Ogas) but does not react to the oxygen in CO or CO2. I have nothing other than observation to back this up and may be completely mistaken but it looks like this is the case. I would like to build a test rig to check this out. but haven't had time yet.
There may also be a difference in what is detected as free oxygen between brands or types of sensors. Some cars seem to get worse milage immediately on installing a generator and others do not.
The bottom line is it seems as if we can with reasonable safety run leaner hydrocarbon mixtures if we add a small amount of HHO. One way of achieving this is to vary the signal from the oxygen sensor even if it is not detecting any extra oxygen. Once again this seems to be dependant on types of oxygen sensors or ECM equipment in the particular vehicle.
08-21-2008 11:08 PM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Main reason in my understanding is that the HHO gas enhances the combustion allowing a more complete burn of the gasoline which results in less unburnt fuel leaving the combustion chamber which shows up as a leaner reading to the O2 sensors telling the ECU to add more fuel.

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08-24-2008 04:33 PM
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#84 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
Now I am getting confused.

If you have a more complete combustion; less fuel and O2 will be left in the exhausts and the ECU will be informed by the lambda sensor that lamda has decreased since there are fewer O2 molecules, i.e. a per definition richer mixture and for the next cycle the amount of fuel injected will decrease. That is at least how the system is supposed to work.

I still don't realise what makes the ECU's "compensate" with more fuel when HHO is added.
/A
08-25-2008 01:10 PM
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qsiguy Offline
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Post: #30
RE: How Much HHO Should I Use?
A more complete combustion of the gasoline so less unburnt fuel in the exhaust will show up as a leaner condition. Not sure how else to explain it but it's been proven time and again that it is an anomaly that does occur and most get the best gains by employing an EFIE or other means offsetting the O2 sensor(s).

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08-26-2008 04:12 PM
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