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How to stop water from traveling backwards?
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skiers4ever Offline
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Post: #1
How to stop water from traveling backwards?
I've installed a second bubbler but, once I cut the engine, the water from the second bubbler feeds into the tube back towards my first bubbler/mix tank. Anyone have any ideas how to stop the water from traveling backwards? It's not hurting anything but I just don't want the water to run out of the second bubbler. Once I start the engine, the Gen creates enough pressure and pushes whatever water is in the tube back into the second bubbler...but I'm losing a little each time.

Please help and thanks!
John

2007 Honda Ridgeline 3.5L 4WD
Hydro Super 2 installed on 5/21/08
Colorado - 10,000 Feet!
07-12-2008 10:54 PM
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visek Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
Check down this page?

http://flapdoodledinghy.com/HHO_generator.html

Another option is to put an minor air bleed on your cell(s) so that you only need 1 bubbler...the air bleed bleeds off the vac in the cell to keep it from pulling bubbler water back into the cell. You only need a slight bleed...though if you are connected to full manifold vac...your cell will need to handle it.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2008 05:01 AM by visek.)
07-13-2008 04:58 AM
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skiers4ever Offline
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RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
Thanks visek. Would a pin hole be enough for the air bleed? John

2007 Honda Ridgeline 3.5L 4WD
Hydro Super 2 installed on 5/21/08
Colorado - 10,000 Feet!
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2008 09:33 AM by skiers4ever.)
07-13-2008 09:32 AM
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visek Offline
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RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
skiers4ever Wrote:Thanks visek. Would a pin hole be enough for the air bleed? John

Probably takes a little more than that...but not much. I'd use one of those irrigation emitter valves or an aquarium valve so you can adjust it.

Your generator needs to be able to handle almost full manifold vac though...a problem if it's plastic and it gets hot?
07-13-2008 11:05 PM
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howiemandel Offline
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RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
visek Wrote:
skiers4ever Wrote:Thanks visek. Would a pin hole be enough for the air bleed? John

Probably takes a little more than that...but not much. I'd use one of those irrigation emitter valves or an aquarium valve so you can adjust it.

Your generator needs to be able to handle almost full manifold vac though...a problem if it's plastic and it gets hot?

Visek, you sound like you got a system going like mine. What are your results thus far and whats the car, etc. etc. Just taking notes. Im searching desperatly to get that 30MPG i want so badly. So far, taking this from that, and that from this, is helpin me, if you know what i mean.
07-14-2008 02:37 AM
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skiers4ever Offline
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RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
The Hydro Super 2 is made really well and out of metal. I think I'm going to try to find a check valve. Seth gave me a website that he got his from. The problem is that my tubing is 3/8 (1/2 inside) and there are no check valves that I can find that will fit that...well not inexpensive ones anyway. The biggest I see is 5/16.

If I reduce the tubing at the check valve to say 1/4, will that negatively impact throughput of the HHO? Alternately, I could change all the tubing to 1/4 but the system came with 3/8 tubing.

Or does anyone know where I can find a reasonably priced check valve that would fit 3/8 tubing (1/2 inside)?

Any other options?

2007 Honda Ridgeline 3.5L 4WD
Hydro Super 2 installed on 5/21/08
Colorado - 10,000 Feet!
07-14-2008 09:12 AM
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CheezWiz Offline
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RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
skiers4ever Wrote:I've installed a second bubbler but, once I cut the engine, the water from the second bubbler feeds into the tube back towards my first bubbler/mix tank. Anyone have any ideas how to stop the water from traveling backwards? It's not hurting anything but I just don't want the water to run out of the second bubbler. Once I start the engine, the Gen creates enough pressure and pushes whatever water is in the tube back into the second bubbler...but I'm losing a little each time.

Please help and thanks!
John

How about an aquarium check valve?
Google Product Search
07-14-2008 04:53 PM
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visek Offline
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Post: #8
RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
The idea of using an air bleed to avoid backflow from the bubbler isn't working out so well. Seems I end up needing to allow so much air into the system that it messes up my idle...to where I need to set it up some.

Mostly just a pain with a carbed engine with no O2...but might cause real mpg issues for someone with an O2 in the mix...my next system will be on an EFI.

SO...I'm now looking for a usable backflow check valve and flame arrester to eliminate the bubbler.

McMaster.com has these valves...search part number

2987K25

47245K27

Both 1/4" OD ends.

I've heard of people putting steel wool into a small canister to act as a flame arrestor....this would be placed in series with the backflow valve. Steel wool would likely rust over time though. So I'd use ss wool.

Both would be in the main HHO line between the generator and the engine manifold.

I ordered a couple of check valves and some ss wool. Expecting to be able to run a partial vacuum in the jars and not use a bubbler.

Due to the extra air bleed...the bubbler goes thru too much water and the backflow into the jars is a pain. If a check valve was put into the line between the jars and the bubbler...I might still be able to use it.

The typical aquarium check valve (blue plastic) has too low a flow and is not durable....I have one I've used a little and it no longer actually totally seals.

Looking like I might do OK mpg wise with this tank...hard to say yet though. !.5 L carbed engine.

I sure don't have all the answers...still learning.



howiemandel Wrote:
visek Wrote:
skiers4ever Wrote:Thanks visek. Would a pin hole be enough for the air bleed? John

Probably takes a little more than that...but not much. I'd use one of those irrigation emitter valves or an aquarium valve so you can adjust it.

Your generator needs to be able to handle almost full manifold vac though...a problem if it's plastic and it gets hot?

Visek, you sound like you got a system going like mine. What are your results thus far and whats the car, etc. etc. Just taking notes. Im searching desperatly to get that 30MPG i want so badly. So far, taking this from that, and that from this, is helpin me, if you know what i mean.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2008 05:50 PM by visek.)
07-14-2008 05:42 PM
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PanamaRik Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
Hers a quick sketch of the bubbler design I use. A large bore flexible tube, with reducers at each end down to the gas line. The large bore allows gas to pass in either direction without the water reaching the narrow bore tubes.

I use 1" reinforce hose for the bubbler with reducers down to my 3/8' gas line in each end, and the curve is maintained by cable ties to the fan shroud on my cavalier.

Rik



skiers4ever Wrote:I've installed a second bubbler but, once I cut the engine, the water from the second bubbler feeds into the tube back towards my first bubbler/mix tank. Anyone have any ideas how to stop the water from traveling backwards? It's not hurting anything but I just don't want the water to run out of the second bubbler. Once I start the engine, the Gen creates enough pressure and pushes whatever water is in the tube back into the second bubbler...but I'm losing a little each time.

Please help and thanks!
John


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(This post was last modified: 07-14-2008 07:08 PM by PanamaRik.)
07-14-2008 07:07 PM
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skiers4ever Offline
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Post: #10
RE: How to stop water from traveling backwards?
Thanks CheezWiz, visek, and Rik. The 1/4 OD ends won't work as I have 3/8 tubing (1/2 inside). I won't do the pin hole as I don't want to go through so much water. I did some Google searches as CheezWiz suggested and, after several tries, found a couple check valves that should work. I'll call the companies tomorrow to confirm before I order. I might try Rik's bubbler and put a check valve on it just in case as well.

visek - please let me know how yours turns out.

John

2007 Honda Ridgeline 3.5L 4WD
Hydro Super 2 installed on 5/21/08
Colorado - 10,000 Feet!
07-14-2008 07:39 PM
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