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Hydrocarbon cracking System
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Buzo Offline
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Post: #1281
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
I tested my Exhaust Pressure System. And guess what... It creates a lot of bubbles when it is accelerating, but when the engine reaches the cruising speed, the bubbles stop. I Also noticed that there is not enough pressure at IDLE to overcome the 'resitance' created by the hoses and coil. So there are small bubbles being generated in the tank, but there is nothing in the output (submerged it in water).

So I put everything back to my original ventury system setup.

Using the exhaust pressure didn't work for me.
02-24-2013 11:37 AM
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Keahiokealohanui Offline
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Post: #1282
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
@ Buzo: Perhaps thread a line from your exhaust into your bubbler or tee into your vacuum line from an exhaust port and use the venturi to pull exhaust gasses into your bubbler? I suggest because it seems that we only burn up to 80% of the useful hydrocarbons through our engines now, a lot of people agree that using that fuel again would even further your FE. In our application it also keeps the fuel warm. http://chemcases.com/fuels/fuels-b.htm
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2013 12:08 PM by Keahiokealohanui.)
02-24-2013 12:08 PM
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dingo Offline
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Post: #1283
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(02-24-2013 12:08 PM)Keahiokealohanui Wrote:  @ Buzo: Perhaps thread a line from your exhaust into your bubbler or tee into your vacuum line from an exhaust port and use the venturi to pull exhaust gasses into your bubbler? I suggest because it seems that we only burn up to 80% of the useful hydrocarbons through our engines now, a lot of people agree that using that fuel again would even further your FE. In our application it also keeps the fuel warm. http://chemcases.com/fuels/fuels-b.htm

yeah, i think the whole idea was to ADD the exhaust pressure (and heat and gasses) to the already-existing venturi set-up
(02-24-2013 08:51 AM)Keahiokealohanui Wrote:  Aloha Kakou,

@ Persistence: Here is a link with some info on Supercarbs: http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energ...age_id=785
They do exactly what were trying to do, but with all of the intake air. Similar in design the GEET, they atomize the fuel by 'cracking' it, and then control the airflow like a carb.
Keahi.

thanks..that was good link to various guys who got HUGE mpg with vaporizing devices. So it goes to show, there is enough potential in merely vaporizing...the 'cracking' is extra bonus, if there is enough heat/pressure to make it actually happen
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2013 12:59 PM by dingo.)
02-24-2013 12:56 PM
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Buzo Offline
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Post: #1284
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(02-24-2013 12:08 PM)Keahiokealohanui Wrote:  @ Buzo: Perhaps thread a line from your exhaust into your bubbler or tee into your vacuum line from an exhaust port and use the venturi to pull exhaust gasses into your bubbler? I suggest because it seems that we only burn up to 80% of the useful hydrocarbons through our engines now, a lot of people agree that using that fuel again would even further your FE. In our application it also keeps the fuel warm. http://chemcases.com/fuels/fuels-b.htm

Actually I noticed something else that might help as well.

I ran the car with the glass tank as bublber and all hoses connected to the exhaust. Everyting ready but I didn't put fuel in the bubbler.

I went to the store like 6 miles away and at my return I noticed lot of drops of water in the walls of the glass tank and some 10 ml of water already condensed in the bottom of the tank.

So the benefit (besides the hot incoming air & exhaust gas recirculation)would be that we are going to have presence of water/vapor in the incoming air. Similar to what Dan is doing, but we don't need the extra water tank.
Per your observation I just combined the two systrems, venturi vacuum and exhaust gas. Let's see what is the behaviour starting tomorrow.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2013 05:17 PM by Buzo.)
02-24-2013 04:21 PM
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #1285
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Exhaust gas is obviously a useful additive to the HCS line but I never managed to get any useful pressure from it as it doesn't faithfully track engine revs.
The Venturi vacuum with exhaust gases drawn into the bubbler is an excellent option but my feeling is that the gases should be fairly cool by the time they get to the fuel bubbler.

The impressive gains from the Pogue carburettor and similar vapour systems predated the addition of resins to the fuel which were specifically designed to stop us using such fuel vapour systems (and preserve their catastrophically inefficient liquid gasoline systems that are still used today).
Feeding hot exhaust into the bubbler will vaporise these resins and runs the risk that they may condense in the lines going to the heat tube/catalyst.
I guess if the lines are short enough; the resins are unlikely to condense.

Cold vaporisation leaves the resins in the bubbler and just vaporises the gasoline.
Of course if any resin vapour reaches the heat tube it will be fried alive and won't gum-up our system.

I just came back from a long trip to Java in my Ford (EFI gasoline, venturi HCS + water vapour) and we took the scenic route through the mountains.
My Ford has a diminutive 2.3L engine which is more than adequate (when running HCS) for horizontal driving but climbing mountains with the thing is heavy-going.
I discovered a driving technique which only seems to work on cars fitted with HCS.
HCS allows one to drive while depressing the accelerator pedal very slightly and I never need to get anywhere close to floorboard the pedal under any circumstances.
If I just begin to accelerate and then back off slightly and then resume the beginning of acceleration and then back off again; the car surges forward impressively and ever faster with each oscillation of the gas pedal.
I use this when driving the freeway but yesterday I was doing the same thing going up steep inclines and around snaking mountain roads with an exactly similar effect.
Getting the 2.3L to accelerate uphill with four people in the car was a lot of fun and I was still only barely depressing the gas pedal.
I'm not quite sure why it does this but I'm glad I found the technique.

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
02-25-2013 01:52 AM
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masster Offline
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Post: #1286
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(02-25-2013 01:52 AM)Edostar Wrote:  Exhaust gas is obviously a useful additive to the HCS line but I never managed to get any useful pressure from it as it doesn't faithfully track engine revs.
The Venturi vacuum with exhaust gases drawn into the bubbler is an excellent option but my feeling is that the gases should be fairly cool by the time they get to the fuel bubbler.

The impressive gains from the Pogue carburettor and similar vapour systems predated the addition of resins to the fuel which were specifically designed to stop us using such fuel vapour systems (and preserve their catastrophically inefficient liquid gasoline systems that are still used today).
Feeding hot exhaust into the bubbler will vaporise these resins and runs the risk that they may condense in the lines going to the heat tube/catalyst.
I guess if the lines are short enough; the resins are unlikely to condense.

Cold vaporisation leaves the resins in the bubbler and just vaporises the gasoline.
Of course if any resin vapour reaches the heat tube it will be fried alive and won't gum-up our system.
Totally agree.
Exhaust gas pressure doesn't mix with HCS. Forget about it. Further more, we have no hydrocarbons to reuse from exhaust, since HCS system reduces them to almost zero.
The only practical use of exhaust is in a GEET system which is very different from HCS.

(02-25-2013 01:52 AM)Edostar Wrote:  I'm not quite sure why it does this but I'm glad I found the technique.
There is a lag between pressing the throttle and engine response due to long fuel lines and bubbler's slow reaction.

Today is today, only today. Tomorrow it will only be yesterday.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 02:34 AM by masster.)
02-25-2013 02:33 AM
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #1287
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Masster.

There might still be some useful expansion mediums in exhaust gas even after HCS has finished with it.
My point was more about the temperature if the exhaust with regard to the resins in the gasoline.

Yes there's a lag but this doesn't explain the impressive acceleration from this 'oscillation' technique.

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
02-25-2013 02:45 AM
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masster Offline
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Post: #1288
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Oscillation technique is prone to make 90% of passengers puke.

Today is today, only today. Tomorrow it will only be yesterday.
02-25-2013 03:00 AM
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Buzo Offline
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Post: #1289
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Quote:I never managed to get any useful pressure from it as it doesn't faithfully track engine revs

I realized the same during my test yesterday. Still I see several advantages of using exhaust gas in a combination with other method.
-The small water formation
-The bubbler keeps bubbling at idle.
-Stronger bubbling during acceleration (like an acceleration pump?)

I will track my MPGs for today for a combination of exhaust pressure and venturi vacuum and see if it is worth.

Dan,

Did you record your fuel economy during your trip? If so, How is it compared with previous trips?
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 06:45 AM by Buzo.)
02-25-2013 06:43 AM
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #1290
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
This thread has become even more active lately!
Yes, you do get a good amount of water from the exhaust; so much so, that it can cause rust to parts that are not heated -like a throttle body. I had run a copper line from my exhaust to a bubbler, but never gained much, if any pressure from it. The setup is still there, but disabled for now.

Buzo: Great work on the optimizations! I am really impressed with how detailed your results are. This is what some of us HCS users have been waiting for! Keep up the good work. If I were you, I'd try the cracking chamber that was mentioned earlier, using either the sanding disk or the spark plug ceramic. You could then try both, to see what happens! Do this before trying the water bubbler.
Also, I run HCS through BOTH my carb's ported vacuum port (venturi) as well as my PCV connection. That way, I am ALWAYS cracking with HCS!
I spoke to someone that got great results from HHO with a similar setup, using two reactors -1 that is always on, and another that works with the gas pedal.)

Persistence: I have a car with NO computer (for now). I can control the fuel ratio at idle with a thumb screw, but I'd have to change jets to reduce the fuel during acceleration.
I am able to reduce the amount of liquid gas used for idle by substituting HCS -but only to a point (almost 50% less).
----
My episode begins here:

My wife and I set out on a trip to the rural areas this weekend. My car had been smoking ALL week long, and I had plans of putting in new plugs (denso U-groove) for the long trip (60 miles each way) right before leaving. I thought that I would need the extra power, since at least 1/2 the trip was up and down steep hills. The night before the trip, I re-fitted HCS with dual bubblers for my PCV, and a single for my carb's vac port. When I drove my car, the smoke was SUBSTANTIALLY cut! Also, the difference in power was easily noticed! I was happy with the results. I didn't connect a water bubbler, since it cleans the engine, and the mechanic said I should let some carbon build up to combat the smoking of my old engine. Anyhow, I thought to myself "I can't wait to see what happens in the morning when I change the plugs!"

Morning came, I changed the plugs, started the car, and all was well! We drove off, and power was there, then a few seconds later, the car turned into chimney! There was so much white smoke behind us, that you could not see ANYTHING through it. That continued for about 1 mile, during which it tapered down and disappeared. I guess it took a mile for the oil to reach the plugs. After that, it was nice, until we got to the hills. This is where I started to see more problems. When we hit the hills, the car started to lose power, and let out blue smoke -but NOTHING like the white smoke before. This was tolerable, but going 30 to 50kmph uphill (about 20deg incline) was not! When we got to the 30 degree hills, it was worse, 15-25KMPH. The speed went down to almost 0KMPH when we hit the 40deg inclines! Yeah, these hills are serious, I know, but other cars handle it well. It drank almost .75L of OIL to cover that 60 mile drive. Coming back was much less though, since it was 90% downhill (very very very sweet, by the way. Unless you scare easily! My tires started to cry a bit, lol)

After asking around, I think that it may be either a transmission or a compression problem. Either way, it would involve a ton of work again, so I asked my mechanic to find a 5a engine with a manual gearbox, so we can get rid of the problem, once and for all. Oh, also, I made the mistake of filling my diff with 80/90 gear oil, before finding the car's manual, which asks for Dextron II (ATF?) in the differential. That should not make much of a difference though, right?

Anyhow, the new engine will use a computer and more gas, since it will be bigger, so I really need to see what the optimal HCS setup is.
Btw... my mileage for this pedal to the metal hill-climb of a trip is 25MPG. Base is about 25.5MPG I think.
Without the HCS, I definitely would have cried! I'd love to attack those hills again with a different engine and a stick! Wink
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 09:24 AM by hhofox.)
02-25-2013 07:46 AM
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