Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 4.67 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Hydrocarbon cracking System
Author Message
fueller Offline
Member
***

Posts: 83
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #2301
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(06-29-2016 07:34 PM)think411 Wrote:  
I hear ya Goofy.Had the same problem and must have changed my copper tubing 5-6 times already because of the clogging and not counting all the times I had to vacuum flush the lines with water and acid. That gets old real quick.
Was thinking about going to stainless steel brake lines for the tubing or some prefabbed device that lays on the manifold I have seen posted here since the copper wrapping and clogging problems have run its course for me.
Anyone here used stainless tubing with results?[/quote]
I do not think so, stell has not the same catalytic performance as copper has.
Furthermore the source of the clogging must be determined and prevented, it could be f.e. either
a) engine oil mist (f.e. from PCV) which gets burned and residuum clogges the copper tube
b) when using regular petrol/gas with additives inside, they get thickier more and more and do not evaporate or crack really at temperatures achieved, finnaly they clogg the copper tube as well
c)?

[b]Possible solutions to a) and b):
a) use exhaust gas overpressure instead (also more hot which is better) or create and install an oil mist catching can (even 2 if needed, we had tu put 2 of them in an old VW SDI 1.9 engine in an old Skoda Fabia to get rid of most of the oil mist residuum in the bubbler)
b) Using a petrol based cleaner instead of "fuel from the gas station" f.e. also white spirit and others which do not contain and additives..
c) ?
Anyway you are of course welcomed to try and test stainless tubing and report, I admitt I am a bit sceptial but until somebody tries and reports, we never can be 100% sure about the results :-)
07-09-2016 11:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
think411 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #2302
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Thank you Fueller for your detailed response.
The clogging I mentioned is the copper shedding under high heat since this is also going on with the outside of the copper as well.
The copper has turned black and has crusted flakes coming off the exterior so it must be coming off the interior too since when it gets clogged, as it always does, its the same black chips I am retrieving from the inside of the tube with a vacuum washout.
Someone else I know has tried this and has used a term like smintering I believe to describe the copper surface deteriorating.
I am surprised others are not experiencing this here.
The copper does not retain its smooth surface but turns black and rough when exposed to high heat and that is why I am looking to use another material since the breaking down of the copper just fouls up the cracking tube.
07-09-2016 06:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edostar Offline
Member
***

Posts: 625
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 18
Post: #2303
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
I have never experienced blackening or flaking of the copper surface.
My assumption is that any tubing that does this isn't pure copper which may account for its unusual behaviour when heated.
Copper has been used by artisans for centuries and can be frequently 'annealed' to restore its malleable qualities with no surface flaking whatsoever.

Copper conducts heat very well so makes an excellent HCS heat-tube but its my guess that other metals should work reasonably well too.

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
07-11-2016 02:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
think411 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #2304
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
I have tried a couple of different tubings including refrigerator tubing and in different widths and all flake.
Someone else here on this forum I know had the same problem and he referred to it as sintering I believe because he saw the copper breaking down/flaking with the heat.
Don't know if we have a different type of copper here in the states but I know we have garbage gas with the shellac additive that causes problems. This is the junk the elites put in the gas so those who tried to vaporize it for better mileage would hit roadblocks. And they say we are free here in the US. What a joke.
So is there anyone else you know in the states that have had success?
Where is HOFox from since he seems to have a handle on his HCS system.
07-11-2016 07:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edostar Offline
Member
***

Posts: 625
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 18
Post: #2305
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
I'm in Indonesia and it seems that the Copper tubing they sell here is pure Copper; at any rate it hasn't flaked in any of the HCS systems I've assembled.
Consequently I've never tried any other kind of metal for the HCS heat tube.
I can't see any problems with using a metal that's not quite as heat-conductive as Copper as the tube is generally in very close proximity to a very hot exhaust pipe (and can be thermally insulated against heat-loss too).
Copper is a soft and malleable metal which makes it easy to fit tight around an exhaust pipe.
It could be that other metals might be more difficult to bend but that would depend on other factors like the thickness of the tube wall.
Maybe even aluminium tubing might work.

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
07-12-2016 05:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
think411 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #2306
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Thank you Dan and Fueller for your attention to this matter.
Seems like the copper problem is indigenous to the states.
I have wrapped the copper tubing every time since the cracking is intermediate as in 10 second bursts and nothing consistent.
Thinking it was not getting hot enough but I have it wrapped on the exhaust manifold with it wrapped in aluminum to keep the heat in.
Cant get it any hotter than that I would think.
Have ordered other tubings in zinc only to find that they are not malleable enough to wrap on the manifold or any object in small quarters. So my zinc tubing will sit in its package seeing its useless for the HCS.
Also tried a 1/2 inch copper pipe of 6 inches laid on the manifold and wrapped with aluminum with the gas fumes traveling thru it but that seems to be a bust also and am guessing its not getting hot enough even though the elbows I soldered on each end came loose when the solder melted under the heat. You would think that if it gets hot enough to melt the solder, then it should be hot enough to crack the vapors.
Not enough contact I would guess even though I had tried to fill it with a steel rod ala GEET and then pumice, zeolite and ceramic pot shards all at different times and all with no success.
I would bet that nobody here has tried the HCS in more versions than I have seeing I can easily say I had over a dozen different configurations over the last 2 years.
What I would like to try next is a solid metal object that can sit directly on the manifold(even though its not very flat) that has about an inch of flat surface and 6 inches in length with tubes off each end where its welded seeing soldering does not hold up to the heat.
If you know where I can find something like this, I would be game to try it seeing the HCS concept works, just not in the states it seems as easy as it does in other countries.
07-12-2016 06:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edostar Offline
Member
***

Posts: 625
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 18
Post: #2307
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
The original HCS heat tube that Pak Dehari issued as part of an HCS kit was constructed from a 1/4" copper tube with a metal rod inside.
The purpose of the metal rod was to channel the fuel vapour close to the internal surface of the tube where it would be cracked more easily (and also avoid the 'cold spot' down the centre of the tube).
The tube was clamped along the side of the exhaust pipe with minimal surface contact between the convex surfaces of the two pipes.

I devised the long 3mm copper tube coiled tightly around the hottest part of the exhaust pipe to test my suspicion that there was little or no true catalytic effect taking place in the tube.
The coil solved the problem of minimal surface contact as the heat-tube diameter was so small, it tended to squash slightly as it was coiled around the exhaust and its length was much greater than the original Dehari version.
I think the reason that this configuration never occurred to Dehari was that there's no obvious way of commercialising it.

If one were to revert to the short tube laid against the exhaust pipe; one would need to overcome the problem of minimal contact between the exhaust and heat tube and also that of the potential 'cool spot' in the centre of the heat tube where fuel vapours could pass without being cracked by the heat of the copper tube.
I can see that the aforementioned problems could well arise if one were to use a 1/2" heat tube but could be minimised by squashing the cylindrical tube into a flatter configuration.
This would present a greater surface of the heat tube to the exhaust pipe and simultaneously reduce the possibility of the 'cold spot' down the middle of the tube.
One would need to devise a method of attaching the small inlet and outlet tubes to the squashed 1/2" heat tube but this shouldn't be too difficult.
Dehari's original heat tube was crimped down either side of the smaller tubes at each end and then braised (not soldered).

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2016 04:38 AM by Edostar.)
07-13-2016 03:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dingo Offline
Member
***

Posts: 220
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 6
Post: #2308
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
In addition to problems with copper, i found the issues with changeable quality of the fuel in the bubbler are frustrating. Most of all, the method of taking vacuum off the carb or intake, renders the engine powerless under load, such as uphill..totally counter-productive. I have fresh piston rings, so PCV is minimal and of no use. Its either got to be positive pressure off exhaust or external pump..and i havent figured out a simple solution to that.
So, right now, i am running without HCS. A more predictable, durable set-up has to be created
07-18-2016 10:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Edostar Offline
Member
***

Posts: 625
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 18
Post: #2309
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Hi Dingo.

The best external drive idea for the bubbler pressure I've heard is an aquarium air pump or similar.
The variable pressure (in line with engine revs) could apparently be adjusted with the voltage supply to the pump (more voltage: faster pump speed / less voltage: slower pump speed).
The link to the engine revs being supplied by a sensor on one of the spark plug cables (such as is used for the strobe when setting ignition timing on an engine).

I hasten to add that I haven't tried this; partly because I've never needed to but mainly because I'm totally uneducated in electronics and wouldn't know where to start.

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
07-19-2016 04:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
fueller Offline
Member
***

Posts: 83
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #2310
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Did it happen to anybody to overfill the bubbler (on petrol car with electronic fuel injection not carburator bike etc.!) so the hcs-filling could be easily sucked in in fuild form? So far I remember somebody mentioned 1/3 of the bubbler box should be filled to be on safe side.. but anyway did somebody experienced overfilling and were there the effects/downside while driving the car after ? Like "shooting sound", small explosions? More interested on practical experiences than theories :-)
07-24-2016 12:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)