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Hydrocarbon cracking System
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fueller Offline
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Post: #2331
HCS vs. econokit
(11-25-2016 06:54 AM)Paulo Wrote:  Has anyone out there experimented simply with water? Something like on the old French econokits. I'm curious to know whether the tubes would get damaged or not that way. Paulo

Yes I did and failed. I have the french econokit installed on Prius PII maybe since 4 or more years allready. As long there was water inside, nothing happened at all, no water consumption, no savings, no gain in power, nothing happened as result. After 1-2 years (nearly forgot it was installed in the car) when I have sucesfully experimented with HCS in other cars I decided why not put white-spirit instead of water in to the bubbler of econokit. Since than the econokit works flawlesly (0.5-0.8L/100km savings and more fast response) just it must NOT be filled with water :-)
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2016 01:09 PM by fueller.)
11-25-2016 01:09 PM
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masster Offline
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Post: #2332
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Hi all. I'm back.
You might find this video interesting. It is about the basics of cracking hydrocarbons. That should clear some unknowns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VofKBcdZtjo

About the purity of copper: I agree that most copper used in constructions, appliances, hobby is low purity. It is a matter of cost but not only. One may wonder how come the price of our innocent copper raised so dramatically? Could it be because most energy-related suppressed inventions rely on it? We need pure copper for them but we are sold garbage. High oxygen copper alloys turn into an ashy coal and powder if subjected to intense heat. They even sell us copper plated steel as copper with obvious results. The more impurities, the more probable the copper will get flaky.

About carbon deposits inside copper pipe: this happens only if there is combustion inside. But if deposits are like caramelized sugar, that is from those 'beneficial' additives in the fuel sold at gas pumps.

Hi Edostar
How is it going in there? Is there a massive use of HCS or similar among population? How do you explain that only in Indonesia there is both pure copper and clean fuel available? The rest of the world experiments copper pipe degradation and weird deposits...

Today is today, only today. Tomorrow it will only be yesterday.
12-30-2016 02:52 PM
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #2333
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Hi Masster.
Good to see you back on the forum and I hope your experiments have been going well since we heard from you last.

As to your questions; I've no idea why the Copper here is such high purity and doesn't 'flake'.
The fuel here used to be relatively additive-free and in the early years I had no trouble with residue in the bubbler tank.
However; more recently the colour of pump fuel has become darker and I've needed to empty an acrid residue from the bubbler like everyone else.

I haven't visited Dehari's HCS forum for a long time so have no way of estimating how many vehicles have been fitted with HCS in Indonesia.
I got the impression previously that there were increasing quantities of cars and bikes running HCS (however poorly fitted they were).
I heard of many cases of the manifold vacuum being used to pull the vapours through the HCS which is of course nonsensical.
It may make the engine more efficient at idle but the effects are totally lost of course as soon as the throttle is opened.

I'm still running PCV pressure HCS on my Ninja 650 and Venturi vacuum HCS my Ford Escape to very good effect.
Smooth, quiet run to the engine with noticeably broader power-band in any gear with clear exhaust emissions.
Fuel economy in town is slightly improved and nearly double on long trips (although I really can't be bothered to keep an accurate log anymore).

Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
01-03-2017 11:35 PM
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masster Offline
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Post: #2334
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
My conclusion on HCS is that there is no cracking whatsoever in the copper tube. If you have watched the video about cracking hydrocarbons, it is obvious there is not enough temperature and pressure for any kind of cracking to take place. We are talking about fuel vaporisation of the lightest hydrocarbon fractions at best. In other words, as a side note, the name 'HCS' is not correct.

I still believe there is potential for getting fuel savings and zero pollution by using a Pantone-like installation for recirculating treated exhaust gases. They contain enough unburned hydrocarbons yet we are still using catalyst converters to burn them with zero advantage for fuel savings.

In Europe and the USA, the 'HCS' will never work as simple as it is right now. We need a much more powerful reaction to get constant, durable, service-free, meaningful results. A simple mild heating of fuel vapors through a copper pipe is not enough. The only proved (yet unexplained) reaction that harvests the exhaust lost energy, combines it with any other water/fuel mixture and puts it to work is the reaction in a Pantone tube.

Right now the sad truth is that we have only Edostar reporting good results and we have no signs of a massive current of successful followers existing in Indonesia.

Today is today, only today. Tomorrow it will only be yesterday.
01-04-2017 02:08 PM
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #2335
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Masster.

I respect your conclusions regarding HCS as I know that the system lies within your area of expertise but it has to be said that there's a huge difference between Researchers and Searchers.

Those of us (and I'm not the only one whatever you seek to imply) who have actually bothered to put together a simple version of the 'HCS' will find it more difficult than you to dismiss its remarkable effects as being due to nothing more than the vaporisation of the lightest hydrocarbon fractions.
However; I'm no Chemist and have done no laboratory tests on the system so I'm in no position to conclusively dismiss your 'conclusions'.

The 'results' (as published in this thread) come largely from people who have experienced a measure of failure in their attempts to install the system on their vehicles where the successes are rarely reported.

Your perception of the lack of successful HCS users in Indonesia is most likely based on my own lack of data on the subject and therefore can't be taken as the results of definitive research.

Anyway; your comments are always welcome.
Dan.

Download HCS Installation files.
01-04-2017 10:47 PM
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masster Offline
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Post: #2336
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Dan
You don't have to trust my words about cracking. Any industrial chemistry manual available tells us that hydrocarbons cracking occurs at much higher temperatures (> 500 C) and most importantly at pressures of minimum 5 times (!) the atmospheric pressure (5 bar). That simply can't happen in a copper tube wrapped around the exhaust pipe and at 1 bar. It is a fact, HCS is a wrong name. Let's not fool people!

The only physical process that occurs at atmospheric pressure and 200-300 C is the fuel vaporization. Is it beneficial? Of course, it can increase fuel savings by up to 10% in average. But that is true on motorcycles in countries with hot climate all year and with clean fuel at pumps. A simple copper spiral will never work consistently on a car.

What really bothers me is your artificial division in "researchers" and "searchers" with a derogatory tone towards the latter. As if you have to build something to count while throwing out the window the simple process of THINKING based on science. Building without analyzing or understanding what could happen is total blindness. This topic is full of unsuccessful attempts of dreamers that "wanted to believe" without prior research and thinking.

Basically you are the only one that reported consistent success. The rest of the world failed.

Today is today, only today. Tomorrow it will only be yesterday.
01-06-2017 03:25 AM
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fueller Offline
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Post: #2337
Vaporisation?
(01-06-2017 03:25 AM)masster Wrote:  Dan
... The only physical process that occurs at atmospheric pressure and 200-300 C is the fuel vaporization. ....A simple copper spiral will never work consistently on a car. .....This topic is full of unsuccessful attempts of dreamers that "wanted to believe" without prior research and thinking.... Basically you are the only one that reported consistent success. The rest of the world failed.
@masster:
you probably have not red many postings since the majority including me suceeded.
Vaporisation of gasoline starts around 80°C around 300°C and while using catalyst like copper you can very well start the process of cracking of the light part of gasoline !! While using catalysts you can lower the usual cracking temperature of 500°C down to 300° and also lowering the necessary pressure.

You really cannot claim to be an expert if you have not even done a basic research !!!!
01-06-2017 03:32 PM
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #2338
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
masster.

I have built many examples of HCS that give fuel saving well in excess of your arbitrary 10% but you'll forgive me if I decline to detail them for an armchair 'expert' who proudly defends Google as a primary research tool and typifies those who actually build and test a practical example (of HCS, in this case) as 'dreamers'.

Dan

Download HCS Installation files.
01-06-2017 03:49 PM
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masster Offline
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Post: #2339
RE: Vaporisation?
(01-06-2017 03:32 PM)fueller Wrote:  Vaporisation of gasoline starts around 80°C around 300°C and while using catalyst like copper you can very well start the process of cracking of the light part of gasoline !! !
Catalyst like copper?? Really?? For hydrocarbons??
Wow... you should tell this secret to every refinery because they are still wasting platinum and palladium. According to this kind of "knowledge" you could create gold from copper too...

@fueller and Dan
It is not about who is an "expert" or not, because nobody is. It is about not fooling people into having false hopes by contradicting basic chemistry and physics principles. You want to believe stubbornly in your successes? No problem. Be my guest. Fuel vaporization works to some extent. Just don't lie people about catalytic reactions in hydrocarbons at atmospheric pressure. You saw that high cylindrical cracking towers in refineries? They are built to withstand high temperature and pressure. Everybody keeps talking about temperature for cracking, omitting conveniently that you need a minimum pressure of 5 bar.

In conclusion, while admitting that fuel vaporization has its benefits and should be used in all cars from factory, I cannot agree with any lie about physics and chemistry. My intention is not to convince you because that is not my business and based on your virulent reactions it would be an impossibility and a total waste of time. My only request is to not fool people using non-scientific, unverified claims. I am not talking about results, I am talking about the scientific explanation of those results. Moreover, it will also help if you would stop having derogatory opinions towards people that think before building blindly hoping for miracles...

Today is today, only today. Tomorrow it will only be yesterday.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2017 03:55 AM by masster.)
01-06-2017 04:55 PM
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fueller Offline
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Post: #2340
RE: Vaporisation ?
(01-06-2017 04:55 PM)masster Wrote:  Catalyst like copper?? Really?? For hydrocarbons?? Wow... you should tell this secret to every refinery because they are still wasting platinum and palladium. According to this kind of "knowledge" you could create gold from copper too...
Well for sure I would tell them... oh wait.. name me just ONE single refinery who would do further cracking of already finished product like gasoline/white spirit (Input product).
You will not find them, they don´t do it, fortunately they are not as much stupid. I am glad we do not have more "armchair experts" like Mr. masster here who is even not able to do some basic research using Google, not speaking of making a simple test of the HCS-system on 1-2 vehicles, so he at least would know, what he is trying to discuss about :-)


P.S. Sorry Dan for borrowing your very exact description of forum-activities of Mr. "masster" from you Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 03:07 PM by fueller.)
01-08-2017 02:53 PM
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