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Hydrocarbon cracking System
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #231
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Hi.

Dehari just sent me this link to a youtube clip he made which demonstrates how to increase the octane rating of bubbler fuel with LPG:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR7DYwz5qts

Edo.

Download HCS Installation files.
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2010 03:05 AM by Edostar.)
08-31-2010 03:04 AM
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orakere Offline
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Post: #232
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
here hcs on isuzu diesel


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08-31-2010 06:12 PM
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Ryanrpm Offline
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Post: #233
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(08-30-2010 09:53 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  Just food for thought.....lengthy read...but well worth it. Reread it if you don't get it at first...it's good stuff. This is from mpgmike off of the mpgresearch forum, from this thread, page 2.

This reinforces the thought of using some sort of exhaust gas recirculation in our bubbler AND having some sort of water vapor being added with our fuel vapor. Keep in mind, where he mentions "HHO", we will be inserting "HCS cracked fuel".

Quote:Gasoline contains chemical energy, which is of little value by itself when attempting to propel a vehicle. To accomplish useful work, the chemical energy must be converted to kinetic energy. Again the quandary lies in said fuel's inability to efficiently deliver such a direct conversion. Internal combustion engines, therefore, rely on a 2-stage conversion process:

Chemical-> thermal-> kinetic

The fuel is first burned to generate heat.

Chemical-> thermal

From a hot-rodder's viewpoint, this is where high compression and potent ignition systems get to show their stuff. Now a new problem. Heat can't power our vehicles any better than the liquid gasoline we started with. We need yet another conversion,

Thermal-> kinetic

As the fuel burns and generates heat, it heats up the nitrogen, water vapor (either water injected, ambient humidity, or a byproduct of combustion), and carbon dioxide (combustion byproduct). The nitrogen is present in the incoming air charge. Some of the water vapor and pretty much all of the carbon dioxide are results of burning the fuel. The water, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and other elements that expand in the cylinder when heated are called the Expansion Medium.

An expansion medium is required to accomplish the Thermal-> Kinetic conversion. Without an expansion medium, you just heat up (or burn up) the engine. Furthermore, the different gasses have different thermal expansion coefficients. Stated in simpler terms, water expands at 12 times the rate of nitrogen, and carbon dioxide is more expansive than water. To get more power from the same fuel you could simply switch from nitrogen to a more potent expansion medium. Taos is not practical, at least not entirely.

Let's consider how water injection can be expected to perform under this model. If the water is injected into the air stream in an aerosol (like from an injector or mister nozzle), it will first undergo a phase change from liquid to vapor. This involves Latent Heat of Evaporation principles; similar to a swamp cooler operation. Some of the thermal energy in the combustion charge that could otherwise act on the expansion medium is consumed vaporizing the water. My practical experience is no net gain or loss in mileage.

If the water is fed into the engine in a vapor form, then the available thermal energy acts upon the water vapor as an expansion medium, but without the parasitic losses associated with the vaporization process.

Now onto EGR. Exhaust gasses typically contain 13% CO2, 18% H2O, and 69% nitrogen. Aside from the effects on combustion rate, exhaust gasses make for a very potent expansion medium. Now factor in the effect on the burn and you net a slower and cooler burn with the presence of inert exhaust gasses. EGR contributes neither as a fuel nor as an oxidizer.

Finally, add some HHO and see how it purrs. At atmospheric pressures, gasoline burns at a rate of 41.5 cm/sec. In contrast, bottled hydrogen burns at 237 cm/sec. This is over 5.6 times as fast. Now for the "boot to da head": HHO has been recorded to burn as fast as 240,000 cm/sec!! It depends on several factors as to the precise speed of HHO, but it is many factors faster than even bottled hydrogen. Do you suppose a little HHO could more than offset the negative effects of EGR with a net gain in power and efficiency due to the improved expansion medium?

Mike

Anyone have a chance to read this? I'm curious about your thoughts......

Purchased! The AquaThrustPlus. Installed on my engine: Tundra 4.7L

[Image: f_emp3hbpw24tm_bcf4d7d.jpg] [Image: f_d32qa8uwm_b9baaff.jpg]

My next mods: Envalve, Vapor Assist.
09-01-2010 05:00 PM
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Edostar Offline
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Post: #234
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(09-01-2010 05:00 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  
(08-30-2010 09:53 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  Just food for thought.....lengthy read...but well worth it. Reread it if you don't get it at first...it's good stuff. This is from mpgmike off of the mpgresearch forum, from this thread, page 2.

This reinforces the thought of using some sort of exhaust gas recirculation in our bubbler AND having some sort of water vapor being added with our fuel vapor. Keep in mind, where he mentions "HHO", we will be inserting "HCS cracked fuel".

Quote:Gasoline contains chemical energy,..... .. .

..........offset the negative effects of EGR with a net gain in power and efficiency due to the improved expansion medium?

Mike

Anyone have a chance to read this? I'm curious about your thoughts......

Hi Ryan.

I read it and it makes complete sense.
It's strange that I never considered the Expansion Medium and always thought (rather simplistically as it turns out) that the piston is moved by the force of the explosion and nothing else.

Allowing water vapour to be drawn into the intake side of the engine will increase the quantity of Expansion Medium in the cylinder and cause the piston to move with greater force that is provided by the exploding fuel mist.

Adding water to the petrol in our HCS bubbler tanks makes less sense as it will likely reduce the efficiency of the hydrocarbon cracking process in the 'catalyst'.

Far better would be to add an independent water vapour system to the intake side of the exgine.

HCS will provide enhanced burn and the water vapour will provide greater expansion medium.

Edo.

Download HCS Installation files.
09-01-2010 06:01 PM
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Ryanrpm Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
Good thoughts Edo. Any thoughts on the exhaust gasses being used to aid the expansion medium?

One way I see us adding exhaust gasses is by tapping into the tailpipe and either running it through our bubbler or into its own seperate vacuum line to the intake manifold.

Purchased! The AquaThrustPlus. Installed on my engine: Tundra 4.7L

[Image: f_emp3hbpw24tm_bcf4d7d.jpg] [Image: f_d32qa8uwm_b9baaff.jpg]

My next mods: Envalve, Vapor Assist.
09-01-2010 06:20 PM
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kumaran Offline
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Post: #236
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(09-01-2010 06:20 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  Good thoughts Edo. Any thoughts on the exhaust gasses being used to aid the expansion medium?

One way I see us adding exhaust gasses is by tapping into the tailpipe and either running it through our bubbler or into its own seperate vacuum line to the intake manifold.

Any FC report from your side after installing HCS?

Regards,
Kumaran
(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
09-01-2010 06:23 PM
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Ryanrpm Offline
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Post: #237
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(09-01-2010 06:23 PM)kumaran Wrote:  
(09-01-2010 06:20 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  Good thoughts Edo. Any thoughts on the exhaust gasses being used to aid the expansion medium?

One way I see us adding exhaust gasses is by tapping into the tailpipe and either running it through our bubbler or into its own seperate vacuum line to the intake manifold.

Any FC report from your side after installing HCS?

After about 90 miles on it, no gains and no losses have been shown. I'm testing it using different settings though.

Purchased! The AquaThrustPlus. Installed on my engine: Tundra 4.7L

[Image: f_emp3hbpw24tm_bcf4d7d.jpg] [Image: f_d32qa8uwm_b9baaff.jpg]

My next mods: Envalve, Vapor Assist.
09-01-2010 06:57 PM
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kumaran Offline
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Post: #238
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(09-01-2010 06:57 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  After about 90 miles on it, no gains and no losses have been shown. I'm testing it using different settings though.

Hmmm.... I guess you might be measuring FC by looking at fuel gauge. How about initial observation like water vapor from exhaust tail? My observation at my car, water dripping from exhaust after 2-3 minutes start engine.

While the fuel in bubbler is still fresh, we can notices more power while driving but after few KM's power back to normal. I believe the saving occurs during fresh fuel and lean air mix.

I believe your car is fuel injection. How do you tackle ECU problem?

Regards,
Kumaran
(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
09-01-2010 08:26 PM
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Ryanrpm Offline
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Post: #239
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(09-01-2010 08:26 PM)kumaran Wrote:  I believe your car is fuel injection. How do you tackle ECU problem?

I have a basic theory that I hope will work. Bear with me, I think it will make sense if you follow my logic.

My vehicle is fuel injected, just like most cars and trucks now days. Liquid fuel is pumped from the gas tank up to the engine to then be squirted by fuel injectors into the combustion chamber. The intake valves open - and as the piston in the cylinder moves down, it sucks in fresh air which mixes with the atomized fuel particles. Piston comes up compressing the mixture, spark plug goes off causing thermal energy which expands certain gases, namely CO2, H2O, and Nitrogen. The expansion (called expansion medium) is transferred to the piston which causes kinetic energy to the crankshaft.

My hope and theory is that as we add fuel vapor and even H2/H to the fresh air, upon combustion the O2 sensor will see this as a rich mixture....therefore telling the injectors to lean out the amount of liquid fuel being squirted.

Combustion efficiency is our goal. Causing the fuel to give us the most amount of use while in the combustion chamber. The faster we can consume the fuel through flame, the better.

With more fuel vapor in our intake, this means there is less oxygen. If there is less oxygen then the sensor should read this as being rich therefore telling the ECU to lean out the fuel ratio. Basically, what we are doing with our HCS system is substituting liquid fuel with fuel vapor. And since it is cracked fuel vapor, there is hydrogen there to help increase the flame speed.

I don't know everything there is to know, and maybe I'm totally off base as to how an O2 sensor works, but that is how I currently understand it....

Purchased! The AquaThrustPlus. Installed on my engine: Tundra 4.7L

[Image: f_emp3hbpw24tm_bcf4d7d.jpg] [Image: f_d32qa8uwm_b9baaff.jpg]

My next mods: Envalve, Vapor Assist.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2010 09:56 PM by Ryanrpm.)
09-01-2010 09:54 PM
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kumaran Offline
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Post: #240
RE: Hydrocarbon cracking System
(09-01-2010 09:54 PM)Ryanrpm Wrote:  I have a basic theory that I hope will work. Bear with me, I think it will make sense if you follow my logic.

My vehicle is fuel injected, just like most cars and trucks now days. Liquid fuel is pumped from the gas tank up to the engine to then be squirted by fuel injectors into the combustion chamber. The intake valves open - and as the piston in the cylinder moves down, it sucks in fresh air which mixes with the atomized fuel particles. Piston comes up compressing the mixture, spark plug goes off causing thermal energy which expands certain gases, namely CO2, H2O, and Nitrogen. The expansion (called expansion medium) is transferred to the piston which causes kinetic energy to the crankshaft.

My hope and theory is that as we add fuel vapor and even H2/H to the fresh air, upon combustion the O2 sensor will see this as a rich mixture....therefore telling the injectors to lean out the amount of liquid fuel being squirted.

Combustion efficiency is our goal. Causing the fuel to give us the most amount of use while in the combustion chamber. The faster we can consume the fuel through flame, the better.

With more fuel vapor in our intake, this means there is less oxygen. If there is less oxygen then the sensor should read this as being rich therefore telling the ECU to lean out the fuel ratio. Basically, what we are doing with our HCS system is substituting liquid fuel with fuel vapor. And since it is cracked fuel vapor, there is hydrogen there to help increase the flame speed.

I don't know everything there is to know, and maybe I'm totally off base as to how an O2 sensor works, but that is how I currently understand it....

Where do you insert HCS gas into? Before throttle body or into intake manifold? If before throttle body then it's fine because fuel from HCS mix with fresh air before enters into engine.

But if HCS goes into intake manifold then other issues need to consider.

  1. Does HCS bubbler uses fresh air from outside or from PVC line?
  2. Are you using air mix setting which comes from HCS kit?

O2 sensor will detect more O2 at exhaust and ECU sends signal to fuel injector to inject more fuel. Unless use air from PCV line with no air mixture then at least not so bad.

Well above is just my taught.

Regards,
Kumaran
(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
09-01-2010 10:49 PM
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