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Hydrogen Torch
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saltmine Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Hydrogen Torch
Usually, burning hydrogen will produce an orange flame, if the mixture is right. Scientific papers all describe hydrogen burning with an orange/red flame. That's one way they determine what is burning. Getting the flame into the "blue" range would probably involve adding in a significant amount of oxygen. Flame color varies based on the "mix" of atmospheric air, hydrogen, and oxygen. Changing the air bleed orifices on the torch would change the color of the flame. Using a torch that wasn't designed for HHO would also produce an orange flame.
Hydrogen...no soot Benny. Even if the mix were wrong, there's no "soot" in hydrogen...Acetylene, without enough oxygen, then you get soot.
02-17-2009 07:22 AM
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benny Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Hydrogen Torch
(02-17-2009 07:22 AM)saltmine Wrote:  Usually, burning hydrogen will produce an orange flame, if the mixture is right. Scientific papers all describe hydrogen burning with an orange/red flame. That's one way they determine what is burning. Getting the flame into the "blue" range would probably involve adding in a significant amount of oxygen. Flame color varies based on the "mix" of atmospheric air, hydrogen, and oxygen. Changing the air bleed orifices on the torch would change the color of the flame. Using a torch that wasn't designed for HHO would also produce an orange flame.
Hydrogen...no soot Benny. Even if the mix were wrong, there's no "soot" in hydrogen...Acetylene, without enough oxygen, then you get soot.

HHO is in the correct ratio oxygen:hydrogen that the flame should be in the blue range and all but invisible. Remember that HHO doesn't require additional atmospheric air to burn completely. Changing the orifice size won't alter the hydrogen:oxygen ratio. I suspect, from Zipstor's description, blue when cold, orange/yellow when hot, that he is getting more then HHO. through, when his unit is hot. That said, OK on no soot, unless, that is, there is more than HHO coming down the tubes. Possibly electrolyte vapour, water vapour. Or it could be that the tip of his gun is heating, and adding something to the mix. Unlikely, since HHO guns should run cold. Unlikely but possible.

BTW, does anyone still use baking soda as an electrolyte? Doesn't baking soda solution also give off CO2 when electrolysed?
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 07:56 AM by benny.)
02-17-2009 07:53 AM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Hydrogen Torch
So nothing wrong with orange flame then as long as the welding is clean and the temperature is ok.

Baking soda belongs to the past now in what I'm concerned, as sodium hydroxide appears to be easy to find at the plumbery section under the name of caustic soda.. In the past I was buying pure NaOH at the price of 100 bucks for 500G at chemistry lab suppliers..

Have you watched that video on page 1? This guy made a torch out of a basket ball tube and uses a cigarette butt as flashback arrester...Interesting...

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 04:57 PM by Zipstor.)
02-17-2009 04:48 PM
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DodgeViper Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Hydrogen Torch
(02-17-2009 05:23 AM)benny Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 04:15 AM)Zipstor Wrote:  The flame is blue/transparent with this welder only when its cold and delivers a small amount of gas. Try to make a bigger flame and see how if it is still blue. Did you ask your son to make sure he drunk the soda before you approached the flame near the can.. just wondering :]

Hey..Look at this video this guy's nut : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99dQ_3ZaLA&eur
After watching a few videos involving the Watertorch and some of the old Yull Brown's models, it appears that the flame on these machines is blue actually. Now.. I don't know why the flame is orange with some generators.. does it really matters anyhow.

OK. I think I see the reason for the colour of the gas flame with your particular gun. The manufacturer's advert shows a torch with a red coloured handle. Yours has a blue handle. Gasp
Obviously the manufacturer has altered the generator to emit the yellow flame so that you know which end of the torch to hold. Cool
An excellent safety measure. I hereby apologize for not recognizing this fact immediately. Smile

Unburnt gas means soot. Soot means carbon deposits. Ergo soot is most definitely undesirable.Tongue

Benny you went completely over ZIPS head with this post... He still never got that you were poking fun... Big Grin

[Image: Hydrogen%20Powered.jpg]
2002 Dodge Quad Cab 4x4 Ram
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(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 05:43 PM by DodgeViper.)
02-17-2009 05:42 PM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Hydrogen Torch
Maybe I need a hollyday too then! Or else..a feast maybe... %)

>> http://brownsgas.com
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 06:00 PM by Zipstor.)
02-17-2009 05:47 PM
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tohmahak Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Hydrogen Torch
I know I'm out of the blue flame red flame subject but are there any ratio for the HHO quantity by minute (lpm) versus tip nozzle diameter?
That could be some good info as the flame came back in my nozzle when i did ignite it... It scared the shit out of me, fortunately the line was long and narrow enough so that it did not reach the bubbler...
02-17-2009 07:00 PM
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Zipstor Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Hydrogen Torch
Use a cigarette butt and stick it in the tube! (watch that youtube video on page 1)

>> http://brownsgas.com
02-17-2009 07:02 PM
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benny Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Hydrogen Torch
(02-17-2009 05:42 PM)DodgeViper Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 05:23 AM)benny Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 04:15 AM)Zipstor Wrote:  The flame is blue/transparent with this welder only when its cold and delivers a small amount of gas. Try to make a bigger flame and see how if it is still blue. Did you ask your son to make sure he drunk the soda before you approached the flame near the can.. just wondering :]

Hey..Look at this video this guy's nut : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99dQ_3ZaLA&eur
After watching a few videos involving the Watertorch and some of the old Yull Brown's models, it appears that the flame on these machines is blue actually. Now.. I don't know why the flame is orange with some generators.. does it really matters anyhow.

OK. I think I see the reason for the colour of the gas flame with your particular gun. The manufacturer's advert shows a torch with a red coloured handle. Yours has a blue handle. Gasp
Obviously the manufacturer has altered the generator to emit the yellow flame so that you know which end of the torch to hold. Cool
An excellent safety measure. I hereby apologize for not recognizing this fact immediately. Smile

Unburnt gas means soot. Soot means carbon deposits. Ergo soot is most definitely undesirable.Tongue

Benny you went completely over ZIPS head with this post... He still never got that you were poking fun... Big Grin


Actually I was being serious.Hmm

I think that was an excellent modification, especially where users with less experience of working with HHO than veteran users of HHO, like Zipstor, are involved.
Smile
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2009 07:47 AM by benny.)
02-18-2009 01:33 AM
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benny Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Hydrogen Torch
Psst! Hey Dodge. That last post was meant as another 'Gotcha'. Don't tell anyone. Wait and see if it elicits any response from 'you-know-who'.
02-19-2009 02:51 AM
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Dmytry Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Hydrogen Torch
The flame looks like sodium yellow. I usually get yellow flame too - certainly sodium yellow as looking at it with my own eyes I can see its exactly sodium yellow colour.

I believe what happens is that you get really fine mist when those really tiny hydrogen bubbles are popping in electrolyzer - and unless you got good filter or you don't have sodium in your electrolyte, your flame will be yellow from the sodium. You could check this with spectroscope or even with reflection in CD or DVD, if the image of flame in the rainbow is sharp and not smeared, then it is a spectral line (sodium has 2 spectral lines really nearby, you wont tell those apart with CD or DVD).

(Came through websearch, sorry if topic necro is not liked here)
04-30-2010 08:43 AM
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