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I'm confused
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mjmpickering Offline
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Post: #1
I'm confused
I've just made an experimental hho generator. its a series cell with 8 plates making 7 cells. the cells are sealed so there is no flow of electrolyte between them. i spaced them 5mm apart(which might be my problem). I filled it with a fairly strong koh solution and connected it to a battery. nothing happened. i checked voltage between the plates, it was around 1.7v, which is correct. But it was only drawing 0.01 of an amp. i added koh but nothing changed(there was now about 3 teaspoons in a pint of water, so its a strong solution). i then tested for amps, touching my multimeter electrode on different plates. the amps increased as i tested between fewer cells, and got to about 15 amps between 2 cells. Any ideas? I'm thinking my plates are too far apart but don't want to start again until i'm sure. the plates are 100x125mm(sorry, i'm too lazy to convert to your language) Thanks.
05-20-2008 05:30 AM
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jksav7 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: I'm confused
I've heard that .125 inch spacing is best, so that we be about 3 mm. Then the KOH solution needs to be 20-30% by weight. That's a lot of KOH.


mjmpickering Wrote:I've just made an experimental hho generator. its a series cell with 8 plates making 7 cells. the cells are sealed so there is no flow of electrolyte between them. i spaced them 5mm apart(which might be my problem). I filled it with a fairly strong koh solution and connected it to a battery. nothing happened. i checked voltage between the plates, it was around 1.7v, which is correct. But it was only drawing 0.01 of an amp. i added koh but nothing changed(there was now about 3 teaspoons in a pint of water, so its a strong solution). i then tested for amps, touching my multimeter electrode on different plates. the amps increased as i tested between fewer cells, and got to about 15 amps between 2 cells. Any ideas? I'm thinking my plates are too far apart but don't want to start again until i'm sure. the plates are 100x125mm(sorry, i'm too lazy to convert to your language) Thanks.
05-20-2008 08:28 AM
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kumaran Offline
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Post: #3
RE: I'm confused
Hi mjmpickering,

mjmpickering Wrote:I've just made an experimental hho generator. its a series cell with 8 plates making 7 cells. the cells are sealed so there is no flow of electrolyte between them. i spaced them 5mm apart(which might be my problem). I filled it with a fairly strong koh solution and connected it to a battery. nothing happened. i checked voltage between the plates, it was around 1.7v, which is correct. But it was only drawing 0.01 of an amp. i added koh but nothing changed(there was now about 3 teaspoons in a pint of water, so its a strong solution). i then tested for amps, touching my multimeter electrode on different plates. the amps increased as i tested between fewer cells, and got to about 15 amps between 2 cells. Any ideas? I'm thinking my plates are too far apart but don't want to start again until i'm sure. the plates are 100x125mm(sorry, i'm too lazy to convert to your language) Thanks.

1.7V x 7 cells = 11.9V across the cell (end to end). You need at least 2V per cell to push good amps into cell. If use 5mm cell gap, use 7 plates to make 6 cells. Or 3mm gap for 8 plates 7 cells.As jksav7 explained, for 3mm cell gap, you need 28% KOH and 72% distil water for optimum electrolyte solution.

I think your power supply don't supply enough voltage for the cell. You need at least 14V across the cell in order to get 2V per cell for 7 cells. So you power supply should produce at least 15V to 16V. Check you power supply voltage without connecting to cell. The cell needs at least 1.9V per cell to generate fair amount of hydroxy.

Regards,
Kumaran
(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
05-20-2008 07:23 PM
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mjmpickering Offline
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Post: #4
RE: I'm confused
Thanks for the replys. The battery pack i was using was a little flat so i'll try connecting to my car. It just seems a bit strange. With the smack boosters that i've made, the amps increase with koh and i find i need only about a teaspoon to 1.8litres of water. i expected that there would be at least some draw on this new cell. anyway, i'll experiment a little more and perhaps make another one with 3mm spacing and see what happens.
05-21-2008 06:32 AM
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mjmpickering Offline
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Post: #5
RE: I'm confused
Ok, i re-made my cell, spacing my plates 3mm apart. i filled it with solution(500ml distilled water to 125gr of koh, 25%) and connected to a battery(13.6v). No bubbles whatsoever! I Tested for amps, it was only drawing 0.1a. Again as i tested between fewer cells, the amps increased rapidly up to about 15amps between two cells(6.8v/cell) bubbling like crazy. so perhaps i should give up and be happy with my smack booster(not easy) or try figure out what i'm missing. Again, any ideas would be great.
05-22-2008 03:29 AM
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jksav7 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: I'm confused
That's very interesting, but I don't know what's wrong since I've never built a true series cell. Perhaps kumaran can comment on this?


mjmpickering Wrote:Ok, i re-made my cell, spacing my plates 3mm apart. i filled it with solution(500ml distilled water to 125gr of koh, 25%) and connected to a battery(13.6v). No bubbles whatsoever! I Tested for amps, it was only drawing 0.1a. Again as i tested between fewer cells, the amps increased rapidly up to about 15amps between two cells(6.8v/cell) bubbling like crazy. so perhaps i should give up and be happy with my smack booster(not easy) or try figure out what i'm missing. Again, any ideas would be great.
05-22-2008 03:32 AM
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kumaran Offline
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Post: #7
RE: I'm confused
mjmpickering Wrote:Ok, i re-made my cell, spacing my plates 3mm apart. i filled it with solution(500ml distilled water to 125gr of koh, 25%) and connected to a battery(13.6v). No bubbles whatsoever! I Tested for amps, it was only drawing 0.1a. Again as i tested between fewer cells, the amps increased rapidly up to about 15amps between two cells(6.8v/cell) bubbling like crazy. so perhaps i should give up and be happy with my smack booster(not easy) or try figure out what i'm missing. Again, any ideas would be great.


Lets do some calculation. 500ml is 500 gram of distil water. KOH is 125 gram. 500 + 125 = 625 gram in total. The cell needs 28% KOH and 72% distil water. Amount of KOH you use is (125/625) x 100 = 20%. If you need 500ml of electrolyte solution, you may put 140 gram of KOH flakes into mixing container then add distil water until reaches 500mL. Now you have electrolyte solutions with 28% KOH and 72% water.

Well, the mistake is not from electrolyte solutions strength. 13.6V from power source is not enough for 7 series cell. When power consumed by the cell the voltage would go down across the cell. Are you sure your battery voltage without loading with cell showing 13.6V?

I suggest you to connect negative to end plate. Touch positive connection to single cell and check amperage readings. Then move on to second cell and watch amperage readings. Do until you reach the plate where no amperage readings shows on your meter. If properly build cell and for 13.6V source voltage, use 6 cells.

mjmpickering, can you post your cell picture? I need to see your cell to understand your problem better.

Regards,
Kumaran
(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
05-22-2008 05:58 PM
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mjmpickering Offline
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Post: #8
RE: I'm confused
Ok, thanks Kumaran. It doesn't seem that the concentration of koh is my problem. I haven't had a chance to experiment further but if i connect negative to the end plate and test through only one cell the amps are around 18a. at 6 cells its only around 2 amps. I'll measure things properly when i get a chance and try post pictures soon.
05-26-2008 12:21 AM
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aquaman Offline
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Post: #9
RE: I'm confused
mjmpickering Wrote:Ok, i re-made my cell, spacing my plates 3mm apart. i filled it with solution(500ml distilled water to 125gr of koh, 25%) and connected to a battery(13.6v). No bubbles whatsoever! I Tested for amps, it was only drawing 0.1a. Again as i tested between fewer cells, the amps increased rapidly up to about 15amps between two cells(6.8v/cell) bubbling like crazy. so perhaps i should give up and be happy with my smack booster(not easy) or try figure out what i'm missing. Again, any ideas would be great.
I'm going to take a shot at the obvious here, but gotta ask...do you have a completed circuit? In other words, do you have a positive charge going to a positive plate, and a negative to the negative plate? Just what is your plate configuration? Are you sure you only have 500ml? That's only half a liter, a very small cell. If that's what you have, and you put that much KOH in there, and if you have a completed circuit, I'm surprised it didn't catch fire. I use 1tblsp of KOH in 1.5 liters of water (triple the water you have) and the amp draw is 21.3 amps, and 1.2 liters of gas per minute. I started with 2 tblsp and it almost melted. Please check these numbers and get back to us, I believe you are running a very dangerous KOH level for so little water.
06-19-2008 07:39 PM
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owen1969 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: I'm confused
Kumaran, Im making a series cell for my 7.3ltr diesel, If you dont mind I would like to ask you what you think is the best, The plates Im going to use are 3.5"x5.5" 316ss(free) I thought I would use 2 casings for this and 4 cells, The cell casing is 16" high made of 4" abs(if this works well I am fabing up 2-6" ss cases for cells), I figured I would make a series cell with one cell 1" off bottom of casing space of 1" and then the other cell above This way I can just run connection (stainless flatbar 1/8th thick) straight up outside like smacks for pos and right up middle for neg, Thought I would make with 16 plates each such as smacks, but trouble is I only have 24 plates not 32. Do you have any idea of a configuration to use on 12 plate cells? was thinking of configuring same as smacks except only using 2 sets of neutrals on each side instead of 3, This possible?
One more question, Most will think this is stupid but I have never worked with meters and such before, Where to you place tester to test amp draw? On the pos plates? or neg plates? Thanks John
kumaran Wrote:
mjmpickering Wrote:Ok, i re-made my cell, spacing my plates 3mm apart. i filled it with solution(500ml distilled water to 125gr of koh, 25%) and connected to a battery(13.6v). No bubbles whatsoever! I Tested for amps, it was only drawing 0.1a. Again as i tested between fewer cells, the amps increased rapidly up to about 15amps between two cells(6.8v/cell) bubbling like crazy. so perhaps i should give up and be happy with my smack booster(not easy) or try figure out what i'm missing. Again, any ideas would be great.


Lets do some calculation. 500ml is 500 gram of distil water. KOH is 125 gram. 500 + 125 = 625 gram in total. The cell needs 28% KOH and 72% distil water. Amount of KOH you use is (125/625) x 100 = 20%. If you need 500ml of electrolyte solution, you may put 140 gram of KOH flakes into mixing container then add distil water until reaches 500mL. Now you have electrolyte solutions with 28% KOH and 72% water.

Well, the mistake is not from electrolyte solutions strength. 13.6V from power source is not enough for 7 series cell. When power consumed by the cell the voltage would go down across the cell. Are you sure your battery voltage without loading with cell showing 13.6V?

I suggest you to connect negative to end plate. Touch positive connection to single cell and check amperage readings. Then move on to second cell and watch amperage readings. Do until you reach the plate where no amperage readings shows on your meter. If properly build cell and for 13.6V source voltage, use 6 cells.

mjmpickering, can you post your cell picture? I need to see your cell to understand your problem better.
06-19-2008 10:05 PM
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