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Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
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Liveguy Offline
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Post: #1
Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
Hi,

Does anybody know of any other method out there that can beat the Air/Fuel ratio with simplicity and ease? Effies are so complicated and for a company who is marketing them, they are not easy to install.

Does anybody know of an easier way to control this maze of a thing under the hood, is there a simple way?

I am looking for somebody who has a way, a simple plug and play system that I can market for them.

Would be interested in any responses,
Thanks,
Dominic
01-01-2009 04:20 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
Hi Dominic.

Plug'n play, yet works for any vehicle, any setup? That's a pretty tall order.

What part needs improving, the install, setup or use? Any suggestions?

The wide band efies are easier to install, no wires to cut. http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/afr_efie_install.html

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
01-01-2009 08:06 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
I actually think they are pretty easy to install. But perhaps the directions are too complicated. The directions for installing the wide band EFIEs that colchiro links above, are simpler. After writing them recently, I think that I need to go through the narrow band EFIE instructions and simplify them too.

But I'm afraid a plug and play system for controlling any vehicle's air/fuel ratio is a bit of wishful thinking. There are too many vehicles, with too many variations in electronic control circuitry and ECU programming. Even if you have a device that can handle all types of a particular sensor, you'll still have to know which type you have in order to hook it up properly.

However, we are doing what we can at FuelSaver-MPG to simplify the process. For instance we are now designing a MAP enhancer that will work with any type of MAP. You'll still have to find the signal wire, but we plan for our device to determine the type of sensor it is connected to, and to adjust it's signal appropriately to that device type.

This is a new and evolving field. And at the moment, if you want to use these devices, you have to learn about them.

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01-02-2009 10:08 AM
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Liveguy Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
Hi folks, thanks again for your responses. It's great to know that you are developing an easier schematic for the effies. I think that is the largest part of the problem, too complicated.

I had another thing floating around in my head. The problem seems to be the extra Oxygen going into the engine that is being picked up. What if you created an oboard splitter that would seperate the Oxygen from the Hydorgen and release the Oxygen back into the atmosphere and utilize the hydrogen produced directly into the combustion chamber via the air intake. Would this be feasible. The design would be easy to demonstrate.

Would you love your feedback guys,
Thanks,
Dominic
01-03-2009 02:24 AM
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colchiro Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
Dominic, I was thinking of that when I posted, but you were asking about efies. Check out the h2 systems section for info on hydrogen-only cells.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
01-03-2009 08:57 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
And be prepared for some disappointments. Projects under development, but at least you're thinking.
Good job.
01-03-2009 05:33 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
(01-01-2009 04:20 AM)Liveguy Wrote:  Hi,

Does anybody know of any other method out there that can beat the Air/Fuel ratio with simplicity and ease? Effies are so complicated and for a company who is marketing them, they are not easy to install.

Does anybody know of an easier way to control this maze of a thing under the hood, is there a simple way?

I am looking for somebody who has a way, a simple plug and play system that I can market for them.

Would be interested in any responses,
Thanks,
Dominic
How much money you want to spend? What kind of licensing agreements do you think are appropriate? What do you think the parameters of the market are? What about a Net Flix system where you send in your generator and receive a rebuilt one every so many miles; can't beat satisfied repeat customers; best marketing tool there is "word of mouth". Think any ad money should be spent not on marketing but in getting together an IPO. Remember Preston Tucker?
01-04-2009 01:35 AM
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Liveguy Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
Hi Folks,

Thanks again for the info. I will have to ask the person who left the last post to expand on his answer-question style pieces. I'm not sure what he meant. And who is Preston Tucker?

I find it very strange that there are vendors out there selling gen's with effies and oxygen extenders to people whom they might not work for. I was totally ripped off by a water4gas vendor. All vehicles are different?

The H2 systems should remove the oxygen problem and using conductive metal for housing should be the way to go. As far as embrittlement, for the amount of hydrogen that is coming into the combustion chamber, is it worth talking about? I mean there is already a percentage of it (although it being small) going into the engine anyway via the incomeing air ducts.

More than enough oxygen is entering from this source also so the H2 will not be the only gas in the chamber at any given time. So, I'm thinking, with the excess oxygen removed, the effie issues are dealt with and with conductive metals attached through a conductive holder of some type connected to the chasis, the heat is dealt with. Also placing the H2 unit near the front grill of the vehicle can reduce temperatures also.

So in essence you have an increased on h2 entering into your engine which should make a significant difference in your fuel economy, of course depending on the volume entering.

Some say that reducing the air flow into your car via the air filter also helps increase your mpg.

Your thoughts as usual would be great,
Thanks,
Dominic
01-04-2009 09:54 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
(01-04-2009 09:54 AM)Liveguy Wrote:  And who is Preston Tucker?
The Tucker Automobile Company that got put out of business.
I find it very strange that there are vendors out there selling gen's with effies and oxygen extenders to people whom they might not work for.
Who else to sell to?
I was totally ripped off by a water4gas vendor.
you and a thousand others.
All vehicles are different?
Pretty much.
The H2 systems should remove the oxygen problem and using conductive metal for housing should be the way to go. As far as embrittlement, for the amount of hydrogen that is coming into the combustion chamber, is it worth talking about?
Engine embrittlement isn't an issue. Doesn't meet the conditions.

More than enough oxygen is entering from this source also so the H2 will not be the only gas in the chamber at any given time. So, I'm thinking, with the excess oxygen removed, the effie issues are dealt with and with conductive metals attached through a conductive holder of some type connected to the chasis, the heat is dealt with. Also placing the H2 unit near the front grill of the vehicle can reduce temperatures also.

So in essence you have an increased on h2 entering into your engine which should make a significant difference in your fuel economy, of course depending on the volume entering.
So we thought. 340ml/min. does nothing on a V-8 I found.
Now I'll make some serious enemies:
I have yet to see any studies that determine that the o2 is the problem. We merely assume so due to the way an EFIE leans out the motor and gives gains (which it will do alone) and is "saved" by the cooling effect of HHO. And the fact that it's what everyone says.
But adding o2 is like adding FUEL to an engine as well, henceforth, blowers, superchargers, scoops, and turbos. (I know it's not a fuel) Several people have used EFIE's along with water injection successfully for power and FE. And no HHO. Hydrogen, burned with ambient air I find, creates NOx, a pollutant, and we are investigating this at this time, as best we can. Anyone want to guess why we don't need EFIE's with turbos and the like? Next test of ours will incorporate much larger amounts of H2 and possibly try it on the fourbanger as well, before we naysay it to it's death.


Some say that reducing the air flow into your car via the air filter also helps increase your mpg.
Most everyone who's tried it found that to be false.
Your thoughts as usual would be great,
Thanks,
Dominic
Well, there's mine bro. Keep thinking, because I don't know it all. - Gary.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2009 02:12 PM by Gary.)
01-04-2009 02:10 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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RE: Is There Any Answer To The Effie?
(01-04-2009 02:10 PM)Gary Wrote:  
(01-04-2009 09:54 AM)Liveguy Wrote:  And who is Preston Tucker?
The Tucker Automobile Company that got put out of business.
I find it very strange that there are vendors out there selling gen's with effies and oxygen extenders to people whom they might not work for.
Who else to sell to?
I was totally ripped off by a water4gas vendor.
you and a thousand others.
All vehicles are different?
Pretty much.
The H2 systems should remove the oxygen problem and using conductive metal for housing should be the way to go. As far as embrittlement, for the amount of hydrogen that is coming into the combustion chamber, is it worth talking about?
Engine embrittlement isn't an issue. Doesn't meet the conditions.

More than enough oxygen is entering from this source also so the H2 will not be the only gas in the chamber at any given time. So, I'm thinking, with the excess oxygen removed, the effie issues are dealt with and with conductive metals attached through a conductive holder of some type connected to the chasis, the heat is dealt with. Also placing the H2 unit near the front grill of the vehicle can reduce temperatures also.

So in essence you have an increased on h2 entering into your engine which should make a significant difference in your fuel economy, of course depending on the volume entering.
So we thought. 340ml/min. does nothing on a V-8 I found.
Now I'll make some serious enemies:
I have yet to see any studies that determine that the o2 is the problem. We merely assume so due to the way an EFIE leans out the motor and gives gains (which it will do alone) and is "saved" by the cooling effect of HHO. And the fact that it's what everyone says.
But adding o2 is like adding FUEL to an engine as well, henceforth, blowers, superchargers, scoops, and turbos. (I know it's not a fuel) Several people have used EFIE's along with water injection successfully for power and FE. And no HHO. Hydrogen, burned with ambient air I find, creates NOx, a pollutant, and we are investigating this at this time, as best we can. Anyone want to guess why we don't need EFIE's with turbos and the like? Next test of ours will incorporate much larger amounts of H2 and possibly try it on the fourbanger as well, before we naysay it to it's death.


Some say that reducing the air flow into your car via the air filter also helps increase your mpg.
Most everyone who's tried it found that to be false.
Your thoughts as usual would be great,
Thanks,
Dominic
Well, there's mine bro. Keep thinking, because I don't know it all. - Gary.

Gary:
Don't recall any serious data on turbo or super charged gasoline engines getting increased mpg w/o an EFIE. Is there a thread on this board discussing same?
01-04-2009 02:27 PM
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