Kia - Odd Injector Issue with E85 kit.

[andyj]

I have a 2001 Kia Sephia w/289k miles and have tried a couple of E85 conversion kits (I don't know why) both with same results. When connecting to #1 & #2 Injector ok but connect #3 and #4 cannot start engine. The only config that sort of works is to have two kits one on #1 & #2 the other on #3 & #4 injectors. I get 302 or 303 CEL error depending on which way I connect. I do have access to the schematics (attached) and cannot see why this would occur. My guess = Seems like the ECM is pulsing two at a time and the kits change so much that they are out of sync all together.
Even when 2 kits are installed I continue to get 171 (lean) CEL every time I start up no matter how I adjust.

Thought someone might have some clue on this perplexing issue.

I don't know why I want to do this other than to have some alternate fuel just in case gasoline is unavailable.
PS - the E85 kits are off now and I am experimenting with other devices including HHO/EIFE next - Finally seeing the light - it is better to just use less fuel.

Andy Johnson
'Higher MPG at any price'

[creepyjon]

Ok for starters why are you replacing the injectors? They should be compatible with e85 from the factory as far as the internals go. You may need to upgrade to a larger cc per hour injector if you don't have enough head room in them for the increased fuel demand, but otherwise newer style injectors are ok with alt fuels. You have to replace all the rubber in the system, so the injector orings need changed. Plus the the rubber oring on the top of you tank, the rubber filler hose, and any associated rubber lines between the tank and injectors. If your not doing any of the above you are wasting your time and going to have big issues down the road. Plus most e85 fuel injection kits cause the system to go too rich and waste fuel. That's the only way the oil companies let them sell this stuff because it is a lost cause with trying to save money. But if you convert a carburetor car to e85 the result is less cost at the pump, and near stock fuel mileage.

My guess is your ohms are way way off. Your computer has whats called an injector driver in it, kinda like a relay for your injectors that works at super high speed. It is very sensitive to ohms, and injectors come in many different ohms ratings.

[andyj]

Never thought of the resistance of the injectors - excellent info thank you.

FYI - I have not replaced the injectors or the orings/hoses etc. When I had two kits on, I ran about 6 tanks of E85 only and had to reset the ECM every time I started due to the 171 error - also had the occasional 302 error. Upshot always in limp mode so MPG loss of 10% was the best and near 30% some tanks. At the end of this experiment I had rough starting and shaking of the exhaust system causing noise at idle that worried me. I took off the kits and use reg Gas again - MPG is back up, actually a bit better than before.
Now I do put a couple of gal of E85 in once in a few tanks to clean my system, but even that kicks MPG down 10%.

Curiosity about running E85 in my KIA has the best of me - I still have the kits and with the rising gas prices, I would like to get this working again someday.
Thank you all for your input on this...

[creepyjon]

I use acetone to clean out my car, need to add some today actually. Got a gummed up injector because nobody ever used fuel injection cleaner before I bought it, ever! It only take a few ounces to really blow out all the junk from you car and is pretty cheap. One quart will clean out the car several times, and cost less than traditional fuel injection cleaner from the store. The gains you got were from blowing out the carbon from the engine, and nothing more. The shaking tells me the computer put one sensor on ignore and tried to run the car off a base line map and guess what it needs to do, never a good thing.

If I were going to do a e85 conversion, something I might do with my next car. I would get something with a real distributor, no coil pack junk. Run the distributor off a stand alone ignition module and ditch the computer. Replace the throttle body with a mikuni bike carb set for alcohol. The bigger ones flow about 260 cfm, plenty for up to about a 2.2 liter engine if you keep the revs down. Cost wise it's only slightly more than a kit, but reliability and tuning is through the roof. Plus mikuni carbs are constant velocity, which actually improves engine response at part throttle.