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Lean or Green?
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hydrodine Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Lean or Green?
jksav7 Wrote:I read once, although I have no proof to back it up, that someone brought their vehicle in to be tested without a catalytic converter installed. He was running a hydroxy generator, though. He passed emissions with flying colors. Once again, don't know if this it true.


rpatzer Wrote:Yes, but the stoich is a computer reading only(due to the EFIE), in reality the exhaust is leaner, thus is seems the NOx might be slightly higher.

Urban Legend.
07-20-2008 04:34 PM
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studebaker Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Lean or Green?
nismotekk Wrote:Guys dont spend your money! I am a technician at an Acura dealership, we are a certified emissions test facility.I can test my car all freakin day long if I want to. I can dial in loads too, so we can really test emission drops. Mine went back in the car today(finally). I will make a baseline run on emissions, and then turn the booster on and test again. Rpatzer I agree with you, we are leaning the host fuel out, and who is to say that we are not leaning it out too much? That is why I do not believe fuel trim modification should be done until the o2s see the HHO. This is why I have posted previously to see if people were monitoring their fuel trims. Mike I also agree with you, we are leaning the host fuel out, but we are supplementing the host fuel with HHO. But who knows how much HHO is needed to supplement? It is my belief that the gas production on most peoples boosters isnt high enough, so when an efie is used they are just leaning out the gasoline. Therefore NOx should go up, but if mike is right why does NOx down? NOx is formed through heat and time. The longer an A/F charge is ignited for the more NOx it will produce, so if HHO shortens the burn time NOx should go down right? This also explains why timing should be advanced. I have all of the equiptment to test this right now, and I will gladly post my findings when I get them. I have a snap-on modis diagnostic scan tool that kicks ass, I can graph 8 sensors in real time. It also has a jump drive port so data is easily transfirable. I do not have an EFIE yet, though. I want to try different boosters and see how much HHO is needed before my ECU sees it. Maybe there is an equation for this, if you calculate exactly how much you are leaning your fuel, then figure out the energy for that amount of gas that you have taken away, maybe you can calculate how much HHO is needed to correctly supplement. Just a thought. I will keep you guys posted on scan tool and emissions diagnostics.

If burn time is shortened, wouldn't you need to retard timing instead of advance it?
07-21-2008 03:21 AM
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nismotekk Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Lean or Green?
studebaker Wrote:
nismotekk Wrote:Guys dont spend your money! I am a technician at an Acura dealership, we are a certified emissions test facility.I can test my car all freakin day long if I want to. I can dial in loads too, so we can really test emission drops. Mine went back in the car today(finally). I will make a baseline run on emissions, and then turn the booster on and test again. Rpatzer I agree with you, we are leaning the host fuel out, and who is to say that we are not leaning it out too much? That is why I do not believe fuel trim modification should be done until the o2s see the HHO. This is why I have posted previously to see if people were monitoring their fuel trims. Mike I also agree with you, we are leaning the host fuel out, but we are supplementing the host fuel with HHO. But who knows how much HHO is needed to supplement? It is my belief that the gas production on most peoples boosters isnt high enough, so when an efie is used they are just leaning out the gasoline. Therefore NOx should go up, but if mike is right why does NOx down? NOx is formed through heat and time. The longer an A/F charge is ignited for the more NOx it will produce, so if HHO shortens the burn time NOx should go down right? This also explains why timing should be advanced. I have all of the equiptment to test this right now, and I will gladly post my findings when I get them. I have a snap-on modis diagnostic scan tool that kicks ass, I can graph 8 sensors in real time. It also has a jump drive port so data is easily transfirable. I do not have an EFIE yet, though. I want to try different boosters and see how much HHO is needed before my ECU sees it. Maybe there is an equation for this, if you calculate exactly how much you are leaning your fuel, then figure out the energy for that amount of gas that you have taken away, maybe you can calculate how much HHO is needed to correctly supplement. Just a thought. I will keep you guys posted on scan tool and emissions diagnostics.

If burn time is shortened, wouldn't you need to retard timing instead of advance it?

Not if the timing is already retarded. if you retarded the timing more, if it actually did shorten the burn time you would essentially be pushing the crank the opposite way.
07-21-2008 04:21 AM
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Ipsidicsitismic Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Lean or Green?
GOD BLESS THE MODIS!!!! Nismotekk, I had the good fortune to get to use a MoDIS extensively at WyoTech and I am head over heels IN LOVE with that wonderbox! I can't stress enough the value of an oscilloscope for diagnosing sensor troubles :O

Now, to my point. Hydrogen has such a vastly different burn rate from gasoline that the computer can't adjust timing to accomodate the hydrogen. The computer comes preloaded with a fuel map designed by an engineer at the factory based on the chemical properties of gasoline. In order to time ignition properly for running gasoline and HHO, you'd need to run a dual-fuel-mapped ECU.

For a better idea of what I'm talking about, go to http://www.fuel-saver.org/showthread.php...80&page=43 and start reading from my post toward the bottom through the end of the forum. The topic varies a bit but it's all good information from a variety of sources.
03-07-2009 06:01 PM
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