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MONSTER cell
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Gary Offline
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Post: #1
MONSTER cell
A WHAT IF thread, brought to you by the inquisitive minds of Fuel-Savers Experimental Hobbyheads everywhere.

What if...there was a single cell with some size instead of multiple cells that were smaller?
Say two plates in either a square or rectangular fashion made larger than the "acceptable" amps for a given alternator.
If our formula is 1 amp per square inch of one of the plates, a 12 x 12" plate set would be ABLE to draw 144 amps (theoretically) without wasting current as heat.
I think we all accept that it won't. BUT, if we used less amps by lowering the electrolyte concentration...would this not create a simple build with relative efficiency?
I'll make a guess of 1/3 amperage as being workable. If I want to run 12 amps on my little car alternator, that would be 3 x 4" plates in a regular unit. Multiply by 3 and we have a monster at 9 x 12".
I gotta try this and see.
Any thots before I waste any time? I think big is good!
[Image: beatanorexia-1.jpg]
10-23-2008 04:09 PM
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daddymikey1975 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: MONSTER cell
Gary, is makes sense to me. I don't know what's acceptable production per sq. inch with minimal heat. If you shoot for 1/3 that's a fair conservative beginning. The size would be huge but it would be thin... pancake.. it still could be kept in a vehicle..

let us know how this works. and FWIW keep it simple Smile
10-24-2008 04:19 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: MONSTER cell
Well, that is one of the intentions of it. I got the idea from some designs like the Wasabi, which wasn't very efficient due to the small bolt used for an anode, then the shimstock tubes that do seem to work very well...flatten that thing out and you have plates. I hope some of the veterans here with the formulas may have something to add to the equation.
Mike, Mark, Doug, Barry? C'mon in! I know Jb is bound to show any minnit now.
10-24-2008 04:37 AM
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jjb2888 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: MONSTER cell
Gary Wrote:Well, that is one of the intentions of it. I got the idea from some designs like the Wasabi, which wasn't very efficient due to the small bolt used for an anode, then the shimstock tubes that do seem to work very well...flatten that thing out and you have plates. I hope some of the veterans here with the formulas may have something to add to the equation.
Mike, Mark, Doug, Barry? C'mon in! I know Jb is bound to show any minnit now.

I hate formulas! Gary think of my design with the bipolar plate. I think if the enclosure was small enough it could turn into a hybrid bath/dry cell. Allowing electrolyte flow and being able to keep things close like a dry cell, but without extra hardware. God I hate this being laid up crap. The shim stock comes in rolls but would make nice plates. Wasabi just left them rolled. I have used it as a millwright in paper making, which is a very wet and acidic environment. It holds up well.
10-24-2008 05:11 AM
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jjb2888 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: MONSTER cell
jjb2888 Wrote:
Gary Wrote:Well, that is one of the intentions of it. I got the idea from some designs like the Wasabi, which wasn't very efficient due to the small bolt used for an anode, then the shimstock tubes that do seem to work very well...flatten that thing out and you have plates. I hope some of the veterans here with the formulas may have something to add to the equation.
Mike, Mark, Doug, Barry? C'mon in! I know Jb is bound to show any minnit now.

I hate formulas! Gary think of my design with the bipolar plate. I think if the enclosure was small enough it could turn into a hybrid bath/dry cell. Allowing electrolyte flow and being able to keep things close like a dry cell, but without extra hardware. God I hate this being laid up crap. The shim stock comes in rolls but would make nice plates. Wasabi just left them rolled. I have used it as a millwright in paper making, which is a very wet and acidic environment. It holds up well. IS the guy with the yellow t shirt the monster cell? Big Grin
10-24-2008 05:12 AM
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hydrotinkerer Offline
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Post: #6
RE: MONSTER cell
jjb2888 Wrote:
jjb2888 Wrote:
Gary Wrote:Well, that is one of the intentions of it. I got the idea from some designs like the Wasabi, which wasn't very efficient due to the small bolt used for an anode, then the shimstock tubes that do seem to work very well...flatten that thing out and you have plates. I hope some of the veterans here with the formulas may have something to add to the equation.
Mike, Mark, Doug, Barry? C'mon in! I know Jb is bound to show any minnit now.

I hate formulas! Gary think of my design with the bipolar plate. I think if the enclosure was small enough it could turn into a hybrid bath/dry cell. Allowing electrolyte flow and being able to keep things close like a dry cell, but without extra hardware. God I hate this being laid up crap. The shim stock comes in rolls but would make nice plates. Wasabi just left them rolled. I have used it as a millwright in paper making, which is a very wet and acidic environment. It holds up well. IS the guy with the yellow t shirt the monster cell? Big Grin

jb since I have to rebuild my h2 gen housing, using your design. How close do you think I could put those plates together using nylon curtain material? That is with a bipolar plate.
10-24-2008 05:22 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #7
RE: MONSTER cell
It's a question for another thread (hint) but I have had problems with the idea of bipolar plates with h2 production. I know how to do it in theory, (as Jb did) but the build itself is VERY problematic IMO.
10-24-2008 05:55 AM
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Static HHO Offline
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Post: #8
RE: MONSTER cell
Gary Wrote:A WHAT IF thread, brought to you by the inquisitive minds of Fuel-Savers Experimental Hobbyheads everywhere.

What if...there was a single cell with some size instead of multiple cells that were smaller?
Say two plates in either a square or rectangular fashion made larger than the "acceptable" amps for a given alternator.
If our formula is 1 amp per square inch of one of the plates, a 12 x 12" plate set would be ABLE to draw 144 amps (theoretically) without wasting current as heat.
I think we all accept that it won't. BUT, if we used less amps by lowering the electrolyte concentration...would this not create a simple build with relative efficiency?
I'll make a guess of 1/3 amperage as being workable. If I want to run 12 amps on my little car alternator, that would be 3 x 4" plates in a regular unit. Multiply by 3 and we have a monster at 9 x 12".
I gotta try this and see.
Any thots before I waste any time? I think big is good!
[Image: beatanorexia-1.jpg]

Hi again Gary,
I have 3 of these monsters. Each is 9" x 13" Exposed inside plate area is 8" x 12". Total square inches is 2,685.375. The config is 5N5, 31 plates.
One is running on a 5.7 L Chevy V8. It's only running at 2.1 l/m. I'm building a power unit at the moment. On the bench, I want to crank this baby up to 80 amps; just to see if there is a high limit.
This pix shows the large dry cell I'm speaking about and it's younger brother (total sq in = 1,879.375)


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HHO-ing 'n Brewin' in N. GA
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2008 06:21 AM by Static HHO.)
10-24-2008 06:18 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #9
RE: MONSTER cell
HOOBOY! I bet you didn't build THAT for the price of a Smack!
An endless list of questions arise on that that doesn't have anything to do with my monster cell question about ONE cell with two plates.
But I have a 5.3 that didn't respond to 1L/min. output at 12 to 19 amps with different units, so I wonder about the stats on your experiment. And by power unit, you mean a PWM? I need to get me one of those, I think.
I'm going up to Canton Saturday to bid a job. You happen to want to come down a ways and do a meet and greet? I'll show ya mine if you show me yours! PM me.
10-24-2008 06:48 AM
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cjpeaceful Offline
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Post: #10
RE: MONSTER cell
Gary, becareful with plate sizes. You may already know this but once you reach anything over 9x9, you start having problems with resistance using a 12volt system.

In order to fully understand where I'm coming from, take a look at the attachment.

This resistance happens because of many reasons.

Now, if you want to use large plates, make multiple connections along the edges of the (2) plates. For example, rather than using one post or tab for your wiring connection to a plate, have one tab for each side of the plate. This will force the current to "cover" the entire surface area of the plate. If you just use one tab, the current can and will have trouble passing across the surface of the stainless steel to the most remote edge of the plate. The current will actually decrease as it crosses the plate surface. Make any sense?

Having said that, I'd like to see this generator in action!


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10-24-2008 10:51 AM
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