Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
Author Message
safety steve Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
I am using a program thru the OBD2 connection that records every sensor real time. I put the data into charts. The program records IAT, CTS, all O2's, TPS and MAP/MAF. It displays all the fuel calculations, short and long term trim, engine load, and more.

From my detailed research, I have learned the ECU has adaptive capability to self adjust to the added HHO conditions thus changing the MPG results. I have confirmed this with my own vehicle through monitoring every voltage and current draw under very controlled testing conditions.

The only explination I can determine is the ECU is adapting and changing to the conditions I control. I would like to know if there is any source for learning how the ECU mapping works and how much variance is out there between makes, models and years of both vehicles and ECU programs.

My results typically start out at 35 to 45 MPG and drop to 17 MPG after just a few trips.

Thanks,
Steve
04-29-2011 11:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
creepyjon Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 3
Post: #2
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
It's called error checking, and all modern computers have it built in. The newer they are the harder they are to crack. The computer isn't physic, but it knows what every sensor should be reporting at any given load, temperature, rpms, throttle position, etc. It's a game of finding out what the threshold is, which on most cars is going to be a very small gain. I was not able to defeat error checking in a obd 1 car, even with a vane air flow meter which is quite possibly the easiest to hack sensor on the planet since it's just a spring, a door, and a variable resistor. The real problem is if you mess up the sensors too bad you could be successful in leaning out the engine....too much! Holes in pistons aren't cheaper than gas!

I don't want to say hho is dead, but if you can't get any gains by adjusting the o2 sensor your going to fight a very long uphill battle. If you don't know how cars work at an expert level it will be a very tough challenge. We NEED someone out there to make reprogrammed computers designed for hho and market them for hho to be common place. Sure you can use megasquirt, but again it requires an expert understanding of automotive electronics with normal people don't posses. How about we all buy carburetor cars, or cars that can be retrofitted with carbs it will solve a lot of issues.
05-01-2011 09:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #3
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
SafetySteve,

Have you tried an EFIE? That is the standard handling for the computer learning. The problem is not that complex. Its just that the HHO makes the exhaust look leaner, and therefore the AFR needs to be reduced. Adjusting the oxygen sensor's data is the shortest path to correcting this. Basically the HHO fools the computer into thinking the AFR is too lean, so it richens the mix. The EFIE is designed to un-fool the computer by making the signal similar to what it should be in the first place.

Trying to adjust other sensors is like trying to fool the computer in the opposite direction, and is therefore problematic.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
05-14-2011 08:14 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
gabriabad Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #4
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
(05-14-2011 08:14 AM)mike Wrote:  SafetySteve,

Have you tried an EFIE? That is the standard handling for the computer learning. The problem is not that complex. Its just that the HHO makes the exhaust look leaner, and therefore the AFR needs to be reduced. Adjusting the oxygen sensor's data is the shortest path to correcting this. Basically the HHO fools the computer into thinking the AFR is too lean, so it richens the mix. The EFIE is designed to un-fool the computer by making the signal similar to what it should be in the first place.

Trying to adjust other sensors is like trying to fool the computer in the opposite direction, and is therefore problematic.

Hi:
Myself, I have installed a Narrowband Digital Dual EFIE and I am a 99% sure that was well installed. Nonetheless I keep getting a CEL notification. I know that I have to keep adjusting the mv of the upstream and downstream, but isn't a quick method to do it to get the perfect millage gain? and also to get off the 1% possibility of a bad conection?
I mean, could I use a EOBD/OBD scanner to do it quicker? how? could be great if you could use an articule about that. I dont think that most of us wouldn't mind to buy a cheap OBD escaner if that could help us to regulate the EFIE and get the CEL off.
Thankx a million
05-25-2011 04:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #5
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
The first think I would do would be to go to your auto parts store and get them to scan your engine code for you. Most will hook up their reader for you for free. Find out the engine code. Then it will be much easier to figure out what's wrong.

If you can't solve it that way, then back off on both pots. Make the upstream (digital) setting about 350 mv, and the downstream (analog) setting about 100 mv. These are safe settings. They won't get you much fuel mileage, but they won't set a CEL. If you are still getting a CEL after that, then you should start looking for an installation error. But if the CEL then clears, you can gradually make the settings on the EFIE more aggressive to increase fuel mileage.

The trouble with using an OBD2 scanner to do the settings with, is that its actually easier to do based on the directions we give in the instructions. The information given by the OBD2 scanner confuses most people. It is really most valuable when telling what error code was thrown.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
05-25-2011 08:01 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
gabriabad Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #6
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
(05-25-2011 08:01 AM)mike Wrote:  The trouble with using an OBD2 scanner to do the settings with, is that its actually easier to do based on the directions we give in the instructions. The information given by the OBD2 scanner confuses most people. It is really most valuable when telling what error code was thrown.

It is "quite easy" with the voltmeter to set the EFIE and the O2 sensor and ECU, but for example when you get a CEL as me and it is not going away or you want to get the perfect milleage gain, its take quiet an effort. Its "all almost base" a trial and error.
To be honest I have never used a OBD" scanner, I have just seen a lot of youtube video and I thought:
- The EFIE is giving us the extra minivolt that the o2 sensor is not giving coz the HHO...and so on. But we dont know how many minivolt the ECU is getting. Would it help to have the minivolts reading that the ECU is getting to do a quicker setting of the EFIE? do you know what I mean?
- And, would it help to avoid getting a CEL and if you get it to get it off quicker?

AHHH!!! I forgot, I dont have the code of the CEL but the car is telling me problem antipollution (the car is spanish and the original test say "anomalía anticontaminación). NOw I am going to try the 350mv and 100mv combination, I will let you know what happen. By the way, when you solve the problem, the CEL is going straight away, or you have to do some kms first? and what happen if you do amny kms with the CEL on?
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2011 03:18 PM by gabriabad.)
05-25-2011 03:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Mrbluemoose Offline
Member
***

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #7
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
(05-25-2011 03:06 PM)gabriabad Wrote:  
(05-25-2011 08:01 AM)mike Wrote:  The trouble with using an OBD2 scanner to do the settings with, is that its actually easier to do based on the directions we give in the instructions. The information given by the OBD2 scanner confuses most people. It is really most valuable when telling what error code was thrown.

It is "quite easy" with the voltmeter to set the EFIE and the O2 sensor and ECU, but for example when you get a CEL as me and it is not going away or you want to get the perfect milleage gain, its take quiet an effort. Its "all almost base" a trial and error.
To be honest I have never used a OBD" scanner, I have just seen a lot of youtube video and I thought:
- The EFIE is giving us the extra minivolt that the o2 sensor is not giving coz the HHO...and so on. But we dont know how many minivolt the ECU is getting. Would it help to have the minivolts reading that the ECU is getting to do a quicker setting of the EFIE? do you know what I mean?
- And, would it help to avoid getting a CEL and if you get it to get it off quicker?

AHHH!!! I forgot, I dont have the code of the CEL but the car is telling me problem antipollution (the car is spanish and the original test say "anomalía anticontaminación). NOw I am going to try the 350mv and 100mv combination, I will let you know what happen. By the way, when you solve the problem, the CEL is going straight away, or you have to do some kms first? and what happen if you do amny kms with the CEL on?
I would remove NEG. (-) from Battery for 15 min it will go away
05-25-2011 06:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
gabriabad Offline
Member
***

Posts: 3
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 0
Post: #8
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
[/quote]
I would remove NEG. (-) from Battery for 15 min it will go away
[/quote]

Hi again:
I want to update you about how is CEL removing operation.
I set the EFIE 350mv -100mv and not change, I removed the POSITIVE (+) from Battery for the entire night ( I did not remove the negative because It has a incredibly difficult access and I should go to the mechanic to do it) and not change, I checked ones again the wire conection, I tried other combinations like 280mv- 175mv and not change.
I do understand that after the changes the CEL wont disapear straight away unless we use a OBD Scanner (should i used it?) so, in the meanwhile I have been driving with the car and with the CEL on and the result is that I have done a 100km less with a full tank, so I am spending much more.
Ahh!! by the way, my last try has been to conect the wires in the original position (as new car) to see if the CEL go away, but after some kms (just 7 kms) from work to home the cel did not go away
So my question are:
- What should I do now? i dont undestand at all.
- Which step should i take now? used a OBD to adjust it? by the way, in my last post I asked if a OBD scanner could help us to set the EFIE, it could?
Please, i really need your help, nonentheless I will keep spending a lot of money and getting my motivation down.
All the bestttt, thankx a million
Gabri
05-31-2011 09:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mike Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 2,020
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 7
Post: #9
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
First of all, you only need to remove one battery terminal. That's all it takes. You can usually leave it off for 20 minutes or so to clear the computer. This is not really the recommended way to do the job, but it will clear your error codes. The best way is to use a scan tool, which your local auto parts store will usually do for free. In that case you can find out what the error code is, which will make it much easier to diagnose the problem.

If the error code is coming on instantly, when you start up the car, after clearing the computer, you probably have the EFIE installed incorrectly. Even if the settings were all wrong, it would take a while, usually many minutes, before the code will come on. So, I would consider that you probably have installed the EFIE on the wrong wire or something like that.

But if that's not the case, then I would want to know what error code you got. Its very difficult to debug a project that we can't see without that information.

[Image: signature.gif]
Visit Our Documents Page
05-31-2011 09:42 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
creepyjon Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 3
Post: #10
RE: MPG CHANGES with controls and conditions monitored
most newer cars store codes even with the key off, depends on what kind of code it is. If the computer thinks it has a major fault it will store it, you have to clear it with a scan tool. Scanners are cheap these days, so get one of your own or as recommended any autozone will clear it for you for free.

ALSO if you do clear codes or disconnect the battery the car may run very poor for about an hour while the ecm relearns the proper maps. I had a vw stall and ran like total hell, I thought I messed something up when I pulled my battery on that car!
05-31-2011 08:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)