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My H2 Generator Plans
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howiemandel Offline
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Post: #31
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
so, Tim, since your using regular "flat" tubes, is your design running hot? im just curious if the ridges are the culprit. I just find it so odd that cj's threaded rod design runs "ok" heatwise, but this stuff, hot. arghhhhh
09-25-2008 12:56 AM
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cjpeaceful Offline
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Post: #32
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
howiemandel Wrote:so, Tim, since your using regular "flat" tubes, is your design running hot? im just curious if the ridges are the culprit. I just find it so odd that cj's threaded rod design runs "ok" heatwise, but this stuff, hot. arghhhhh

Howie, I assume you are referring to my simple Voltameter design? If so, I think there are many reasons why this design is running "cool".

(1) If you take the total volume of the threaded rods and compare this to the total volume of the solution they are bathed in, the solution is almost twice that of the rods. There is a greater potential to dissipate heat this way.

(2) I'm applying approx. 11.65 volts @ a maximum of 4.75 amps. If the amperage was higher than say 12 amps, the amount of heat generated would increase substantially.

(3) There is a large "neutral" zone below the electrodes where the solution stays relatively "cool". This zone, I think, contributes to the "cool" generator (ties in with #1).

Just some thoughts.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2008 09:32 AM by cjpeaceful.)
09-26-2008 08:18 AM
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TimThe Scooper Offline
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Post: #33
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
howiemandel Wrote:so, Tim, since your using regular "flat" tubes, is your design running hot? im just curious if the ridges are the culprit. I just find it so odd that cj's threaded rod design runs "ok" heatwise, but this stuff, hot. arghhhhh

Asa soon as I get it running I'll let you know. Having a heck of a time assembling everything. Hopefully in the next few days,I'll be bench testing it. Also, canceled my KOH order from Summer Bee Meadow. (It's been two months) I drove into the city and picked up 50 lbs of it and yes, I'll plan on selling it in smaller quantities, along with Sodium Citrate as soon as I get my hazmat approval to ship it. Big Grin
10-03-2008 09:56 PM
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jjb2888 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
TimThe Scooper Wrote:
howiemandel Wrote:so, Tim, since your using regular "flat" tubes, is your design running hot? im just curious if the ridges are the culprit. I just find it so odd that cj's threaded rod design runs "ok" heatwise, but this stuff, hot. arghhhhh

Asa soon as I get it running I'll let you know. Having a heck of a time assembling everything. Hopefully in the next few days,I'll be bench testing it. Also, canceled my KOH order from Summer Bee Meadow. (It's been two months) I drove into the city and picked up 50 lbs of it and yes, I'll plan on selling it in smaller quantities, along with Sodium Citrate as soon as I get my hazmat approval to ship it. Big Grin
Thats what I think with the ridges in the tubes compared to water volume. so much surface area on the tubes it heats the low water volume in the unit
10-04-2008 08:56 AM
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howiemandel Offline
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Post: #35
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
Yes jjb, but then I think, lots of surface area, so.......it should generate far more then what it does. Even CJ's threaded rod, which is half the size of the hot water heater pipe stuff, produces more. So it produces more, and doesnt get as hot. Now, i don't know, its just I think the ridges are fine, its just the ridges produce resistance. Thats just my opinion.
10-04-2008 09:25 AM
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jjb2888 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
howiemandel Wrote:Yes jjb, but then I think, lots of surface area, so.......it should generate far more then what it does. Even CJ's threaded rod, which is half the size of the hot water heater pipe stuff, produces more. So it produces more, and doesnt get as hot. Now, i don't know, its just I think the ridges are fine, its just the ridges produce resistance. Thats just my opinion.

I would have to see his and your to compare. What divider are you using?
10-04-2008 11:36 AM
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cjpeaceful Offline
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Post: #37
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
jj, I was (yes, that is the correct tense) not using a divider. If you do a quick check over on my You Tube channel (cjpeaceful1) then you will see how my H2 only generator was constructed. Look for HHO separation (3) and (4).

Also, there is something here I think we are missing, myself included and that is amperage / square inch of exposed surface area. Like I mentioned in another post, once you exceed the "desireable" amperage / square inch formula, one will quickly see an increase in temperature. And what I've noticed, is the sharp rise in which this can occur.

So, if you take my 2" dia. PVC tube H2 generator, with it's electrode plates, and calculate the total surface area for those electrodes, I should not have exceeded 13.75 amps. I did a few times and this translated to a sharp rise in temperature.

Just for reference, my electrodes consisted of (4) plates each. The plates measured 1.25" x 4". Minus the bolt holes and I had somewhere around 36 sq. inches of exposed surface area per electrode or 13.75 amperes - maximum. On a few occasions I was pulling 15+.

Oh, and something else to think about when using ribbed tubing. If it is flexable, there could be varying degrees of contact throughout the tube. This will cause a variance in resistant along the length of the tube. Heat could be an issue at these points.
10-13-2008 12:56 PM
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nerys Offline
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Post: #38
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
wow this is almost exactly what we build in school almost 20 years ago! except we used regular steel pipe (no it did not last long but that was not the point)

I wonder if they make SS pipe ?? I might have to find out. Is there a reason for the spiral tubing or was that just a convenient source of SS tubing?
10-17-2008 02:46 AM
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TimThe Scooper Offline
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Post: #39
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
nerys Wrote:wow this is almost exactly what we build in school almost 20 years ago! except we used regular steel pipe (no it did not last long but that was not the point)

I wonder if they make SS pipe ?? I might have to find out. Is there a reason for the spiral tubing or was that just a convenient source of SS tubing?

Yes, they make SS pipe (tubing) Also certified 316L! Very expensive though. So far I have two models using SS tubing. One is based on CjPeacful's design. (H2 Seperation 03) Basically a three cell unit, with one tube for pos. and one tube for neg. It holds 13 cups of electrolyte and so far I have mixed in about 1 cup of KOH (46 Tsp) and I'm drawing about 2.67 amps per cell at 85 degrees. I'm aiming for 2.97 amps cold and 5.86 hot. Production seems pretty reasonable, but I can't measure that yet until it's sealed. There is nothing but a space separating the electrodes from each other (and a lexan divider) and it separates pretty good so far. However, when I shake it a little, the gasses "fall" below the bottom of the electrodes and intermingle. I think that happens because the electrodes freely move about in the chambers. I'm going to try isolating them and test again.

The second design is simply separated by fiberglass with about a 4 mm separation between the electrodes. Again, good separation, and when I shake it, it does not intermingle the gasses. I think it is because the electrodes do not move about in their chambers. This design holds 9 cups of electrolyte and so far with 5 Tbs. of KOH it produces real well, stays separated, but it's getting too hot. 150 degrees so far and 9.21 amps per cell. I'll be reducing the KOH and aim for 5.87 amps hot per cell. I'll be testing more tomorrow. Keeping you posted!Big Grin
10-22-2008 12:07 AM
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nerys Offline
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Post: #40
RE: My H2 Generator Plans
Ok my knowledge on this is pretty limited. I assume the electrolyte from both sides MUST be allowed to mix? IE I assume if I put 2 seperate seals containers next to each other even if they are a quarter in apart (electrode to electrode) it won't work if they are seperate containers?

how much contact is needed? can I make the container 2 feet across and have the "openings" that let the electrolyte mix more than 12 inches away from the electrodes so that the gasses can not mix?

IE what conditions "must" be met for the unit to work at all?
10-22-2008 06:54 AM
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