My Monster Cell Project **Gas processing and safety**

[Zipstor]

Hi there,

I'm about to build a big cell based on the bb smack gen IV. The idea is to get about 1200L/h in order to use as a torch/ welder.

What kind of plate configuration do you guys suggest. And how many plates. I will use 24v power set.

Original plating is: -nnnnnn+-nnnnnn+ under 12v or 6N2
So I suppose it will be -nnnnnnnnnnnn+ under 24v 12N1

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers for now.

[ptours99]

(04-19-2009 10:52 PM)Zipstor Wrote:  Hi there,

I'm about to build a big cell based on the bb smack gen IV. The idea is to get about 1200L/h in order to use as a torch/ welder.

What kind of plate configuration do you guys suggest. And how many plates. I will use 24v power set.

Original plating is: -nnnnnn+-nnnnnn+ under 12v or 6N2
So I suppose it will be -nnnnnnnnnnnn+ under 24v 12N1

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers for now.

that's what the smack daddy says if you connect for 24 volts.i also have a bbsmack IV AT 4AMPS IT MAKES SOME GOOD GAS,but i'mdone conditioning so we'll kick it up a notch now.

[Zipstor]

Okay, here are some size calculation basic maths, let me know is I forgot something.

Data from smack's site:
6" x 6" BBsmack 14N1
1050ml=48s
26v 5.6A

That is basicly
0.06*(1050/48)=1.3LPM

So therefore if I add more electrolyte:
>at 26V*11.2A=291.2W out 2.6LPM
>at 26V*22.4A=582.4W out 5.2LPM

Now, if I double the plate surface:
6" x 12" BBsmack 14N1
>at 26V * 44.8A = 10.4LPM

And add more plates:
6" x 12" BBsmack 14N2
> 26V * 89.6A = 20.8LPM
6" x 12" BBsmack 14N3
> 26V *134.4A = 31.2LPM

What I'm aiming at is a 14N2 or 14N3 12" is that correct. Or shall I just make it a 48N1 will that still work.

[Zipstor]

Here are the diagrams I made today. I'm finally using the SID Cell for the outside features regarding I will have a lot of plates and this very design has bolts going through the plates and gaskets. It will provide more solidity. The inside part is an improved version of the BB Smack Gen IV, I've added a second refill port that will stand on the opposite end plate in order to feed more evenly regarding the amount of plates being important (up to between 50 and 60, I have to figure that out). I've expanded the 6x6 to a 6x12 to end up with more plate surface. The final shape of the cell will be a flat rectangle in a way I can sit the tank/ bubbler on top as the cell will have to fit within a cradle..

[HYDROGENSINGAPORE]

Take a look at my 13 tube in tubes video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cscJUwHIA10

[Zipstor]

It reminds me of that video of Ravy's cell.. Did you make it yourself.

I'm very interested to know how much gas you can produce with that under what power. Are you using any sort of pulsed current or any special waveshape.

I suggest you open a new thread for that and explain the background of your design. I suggest you post it on http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/index.php as well. And maybe overunity.com if you haven't already.

[tohmahak]

Yo Zip, if you want big production for your welder, your on the right way with 24V(If you plan on making it a portable welder) if not why not go on 120V rectified to dc with proper capacitor (depending max on amp draw) and diode bridge, the cell will be longer(more plates) but you will be able to make it smaller in surface area. Just take into consideration that rectified 120v ac become 168 V dc(so set your neutral to have less than 2V between each). So if you sell this in shops and stuff like that all they will have to do is to plug the thing in the wall and no need of you to add transformer to lower the voltage. The higher the voltage the more efficient it gets (as the smack shows in one of his video 12V vs 24V so imagine 120, just like bob boyce did in fact).

Keep up the good work!

[Zipstor]

Yes I thought of that. But have one thing in mind, the grid here delivers 240v so to get 120v I will still need to divide the voltage. My tests will be run with a modulable power supply that will be able to deliver the voltage i want anyhow. Now why do I want less than 2v per between each plate? I read everywhere that 2v is best... As well, why a smaller plate surface area would be more interesting.. I reckon 12x6 is a good base.. Tell me what you reckon about this before I start cutting.

I will try with high voltage once my plates will come from the factory however the final configuration will have an obscene amount of neutrals, is that a problem?

Thanks for your input.

[tohmahak]

So if your on 240V AC, it goes to about 340 rectified DC so youll need a bunch of neutrals to match 2V by cell. By the way, 2V by cell is only a very good approximation to fall into high efficiency generator as, depending on the type of electrolyte you use, max efficiency is somewhere between 1,3 and 1,8 V. Theoritically to split the water molecule you need 1,25V any excess voltage will obviously result in more amp in the cell, so more HHO but also more heat and less efficiency. In practice though to get the reaction started good all over your plate you need a bit more(again depending on the e-lyte you use between 1,3 and 1,8V), so thats why 2V is the recommended voltage for Mr. Everybody. After you set the voltage to the value where is is the most efficient it's a matter of mixing e-lyte concentration to reach the amperage you want. take note that with NaOh max conductivity is at 20% by weight and with KOH it is at 28%. If you can concentrate to either of these levels you'll reach the max amp you generator at max efficiency, form there if you want more or less amp you need to vary the size of the plate.

So the resume the whole thing to get the best efficiency: get the best water conductivity with the less voltage between your cell to have only HHO and no heat. From there you can modulate the amp with an autoregulated or not "duty cycle variable pwm" (I am, having mine built at this moment as there is none available so far).

So to get back to the plate size, it is only a matter of how much HHO you want to produce at max efficiency. Also take note that stainless is a poor conductor so the if your plates are to big, youll have a good production near your connection and it'll decrease as distance increase from the connection. (A good way to see this effect is when you use SS wired coil like water4gas masson jar for generator) So if you plan to play in the 1,3 to 1,8V zone the plate size and where the connection on the plate is might become critical.

Last thing, I'll just want to let you know, how my next generator will be built: On my youtube channel there is one 3D animation that shows the channeled gaskets I will be using to have a good flow in the cell and no edge effect, my generator (the tohmahak 3,4 gen) will only have a 5in x 5in active surface. One cell (stack of 8 plate) will produce about 3 LPM max on 14V(car alternator). To get more production I will only add other cell in parrallele.

So let us know how everything will turn out! I hope this will help you out! Also all of what I said is based on my reading and experience, someone might have found something else, I do not pretend to hold the absolute truth on efficiency, I'm just sharing so take what you like and try the rest for yourself!

[Zipstor]

Thanx for all that brotha! I will find the perfect e-lyte recipe and the perfect voltage by running some tests when the plates will be cut. Now regarding the 12x6" plate design, I chosed to double the surface in order to divide by 2 the amont of plates, therefore, the lenght of the stack, for some mechanical reasons you might understand. Now if you reckon that there will be a conductivity issue due to that, I can probably solve it by adding another hook on the opposite corner at the top or diagonally opposed in order to increase and even the feeding points. Do you reckon it's a good idea?