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My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
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javion Offline
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Post: #1
My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
My 2000 Saturn LS2 w/3.0 V6 isn't liking the dual EFIE at all. Just 2 or 3 days after wiring it into the 5 wire O2 sensors, it started losing power and actually started to severely misfire. I can start the engine fine, but if it is cold, it will run about 5 seconds then almost completely stall with combustion occuring in the manifold and the smell of unburned fuel from the exhaust. After 10 or 15 restarts it will be warm enough to actually keep running without misfiring.
The engine has a TBI intake system, another set of O2 sensors (3 wire) directly after the 5 wires on each bank and before the cat and only the 5 wires have been treated. I'm using the H2 Power Core generator with baking soda in water, fed into one of the PCV lines right before the TBI. The power core has been used almost 3 months now.
I've checked the temp sending unit resistance and it appears to be nominal, although I didn't check for internal shorts. I've double checked the O2 sensor wiring and it is correct. I still get variable voltage readings at the test jacks and have adjusted from about 60 mV up to about 140 mV with no change. I've powered the EFIE down both by itself and with the generator. No help. I had the "check engine" light with "lean exhaust" code for a while, but added the "bank 2 sensor 1 inop" along with the "multiple cylinder misfire" codes since installing the EFIE. After removing B+ from the computer the check engine light went away, but not the problem. The engine probably hasn't been able to run long enough for the light to come back on. I tried to check the O2 sensor resistance (using the Saturn service wiring schematic), but it looked open, as I'm sure it's supposed to. So, I'm at a standstill here until I get some help.
Any suggestions??????
06-01-2008 11:54 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
The EFIE is definitely installed incorrectly, and should be turned off until we can get that straightened out. Turning the EFIE off will take it out of circuit and re-connect the wire that you are treating.

Please attach your wiring diagram for that sensor. I think you may have emailed it to me earlier, but please attach it here anyway. We must be on the wrong wire.

For sure, if it causes the engine to run rough, it's just wrong, so don't try to drive it that way. Turn it off or disconnect it until we can get this straightened out.

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06-01-2008 12:13 PM
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javion Offline
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Post: #3
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
OK, Mike. I did shut it down. I've made a few attempts at starting the engine since, but shutting it down when it starts misfiring. Still no check engine light.
Sorry, you're the only one with a digital version of the schematic.

mike Wrote:The EFIE is definitely installed incorrectly, and should be turned off until we can get that straightened out. Turning the EFIE off will take it out of circuit and re-connect the wire that you are treating.

Please attach your wiring diagram for that sensor. I think you may have emailed it to me earlier, but please attach it here anyway. We must be on the wrong wire.

For sure, if it causes the engine to run rough, it's just wrong, so don't try to drive it that way. Turn it off or disconnect it until we can get this straightened out.
06-04-2008 04:18 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
javion Wrote:Sorry, you're the only one with a digital version of the schematic.

Uh oh. Well, I haven't deleted my old emails for quite a while. Please tell me the email address you used when you sent it to me. I'll dig it out, and send you a copy too.

I wasn't sure about the wire I told you to use. It sounds right (signal wire), but I haven't seen that designation used on 5-wire hookups before. There is a pair of wires called the pump wires and the ECU puts a voltage on one, and the reads the current changes on the other. I want to try putting the EFIE on the return wire of that pair. I think that's where it's supposed to go.

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06-04-2008 07:10 PM
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javion Offline
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Post: #5
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
I sent it to the Mike@fuelsaver-mpg address on the 28th.

mike Wrote:
javion Wrote:Sorry, you're the only one with a digital version of the schematic.

Uh oh. Well, I haven't deleted my old emails for quite a while. Please tell me the email address you used when you sent it to me. I'll dig it out, and send you a copy too.

I wasn't sure about the wire I told you to use. It sounds right (signal wire), but I haven't seen that designation used on 5-wire hookups before. There is a pair of wires called the pump wires and the ECU puts a voltage on one, and the reads the current changes on the other. I want to try putting the EFIE on the return wire of that pair. I think that's where it's supposed to go.
06-05-2008 04:38 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
Ok, found em, and they are attached for your reference.

My best guess, if the wire marked signal didn't work is the current pump input wire. Note it might be the output wire too, because I can't tell from the diagram if input and output is referring to the ECU or the sensor. But what you have is a current between a reference voltage supplied by the ECU and a return from the sensor. On that return wire the sensor regulates the amount of current, and the ECU reads the current to determine the amount of oxygen in the exhaust.

I'm sorry, I wish I could tell you exactly what to do. I have only 2nd hand reports on this. Please, please, if you get this working write back and tell me exactly what you did, so I'll have the information available for the next guy(s) who have the same situation.


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06-05-2008 08:48 PM
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javion Offline
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Post: #7
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
Mike:
I got the car running today after several attempts and cleaning the PCM connector and verifying the wiring. I have continuity from the connector thru the EFIE and back to the splices. Once it stayed running I drove it for about 20 minutes with no problems or "check engine" light. This tells me all emission parts are good and so is the wiring. Maybe the EFIE is on the wrong leads!?

mike Wrote:Ok, found em, and they are attached for your reference.

My best guess, if the wire marked signal didn't work is the current pump input wire. Note it might be the output wire too, because I can't tell from the diagram if input and output is referring to the ECU or the sensor. But what you have is a current between a reference voltage supplied by the ECU and a return from the sensor. On that return wire the sensor regulates the amount of current, and the ECU reads the current to determine the amount of oxygen in the exhaust.

I'm sorry, I wish I could tell you exactly what to do. I have only 2nd hand reports on this. Please, please, if you get this working write back and tell me exactly what you did, so I'll have the information available for the next guy(s) who have the same situation.
06-08-2008 11:22 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #8
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
If the wire marked signal doesn't work, then my best guess is that it's the current pump wire. There is a pair of wires, one will have a steady voltage supplied by the ECU at either 3.3 or 2.8 volts. The other wire will oscillate a bit above and below that voltage. That will be the return wire from the sensor. I think the EFIE needs to go there.

But again, I caution you. I have no experience with these. You are in trial and error mode here. I don't see any risk to the efie, sensor or ECU from trying this, even if it doesn't work as expected.

Let me know, please, how it works.

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06-08-2008 02:52 PM
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javion Offline
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Post: #9
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
Mike:
Just after my last post I got the check engine light again and it's for the same codes it had when everything was operating (exhaust lean both banks and engine misfire). I haven't changed anything since I disconnected the electrolyzer and removed power from the EFIE. The engine does act up in the morning, but not as bad as it used to and there is still some lack of power and poor gas mileage. I'm thinking that just having the EFIE circuit load on the signal lead is disrupting the computer. What do you think?

mike Wrote:If the wire marked signal doesn't work, then my best guess is that it's the current pump wire. There is a pair of wires, one will have a steady voltage supplied by the ECU at either 3.3 or 2.8 volts. The other wire will oscillate a bit above and below that voltage. That will be the return wire from the sensor. I think the EFIE needs to go there.

But again, I caution you. I have no experience with these. You are in trial and error mode here. I don't see any risk to the efie, sensor or ECU from trying this, even if it doesn't work as expected.

Let me know, please, how it works.
06-18-2008 01:54 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #10
RE: My Saturn doesn't like EFIE
I just read a post my mpgmike over at mpgresearch.com. He's only done one 5-wire wide band sensor install. It was successful. But he used a very low setting on the amount of millivolts he added with the EFIE. So set the EFIE very low, like below .1 volt, or even lower to start with like .050 or so. Then move up by small increments from there.

The wire you should use, I think, is the current pump output wire. But note, I can't tell if "input" and "output" is from the viewpoint of the ECU or the sensor.

If the engine is misfiring or throwing a code, it's definitely wrong, and you don't need to drive it a while to see if it gets better or something. When we get it right, the engine will run fine from the start.

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06-19-2008 06:07 PM
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