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NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
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mobilehydricity Offline
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Post: #1
NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
HI all... I have been working on a new approach to O2 /Map problem. My approach is to control the H2 at the air intake and sample exhaust emission . ie introducing inert molecules with the H2 to change the amount of oxygen that can be sampled by the sensor. Check this out at http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity page link New EFIE MAP.
FEEDBACK ON THIS IDEA WOULD BE GREATY APPRECIATED!
MIKEY O GRUNYENCool[/font][/color]
10-10-2008 06:29 AM
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benny Offline
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Post: #2
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
mobilehydricity Wrote:HI all... I have been working on a new approach to O2 /Map problem. My approach is to control the H2 at the air intake and sample exhaust emission . ie introducing inert molecules with the H2 to change the amount of oxygen that can be sampled by the sensor. Check this out at http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity page link New EFIE MAP.
FEEDBACK ON THIS IDEA WOULD BE GREATY APPRECIATED!
MIKEY O GRUNYENCool[/font][/color]

If I understand your drawing, you appear to be mixing exhaust gases with the intake air. Isn't that what AGR/EGR already does on most modern cars?
Could you be re-inventing the wheel?

If you have a way of adjusting the AGR/EGR to automatically increase the amount of exhaust gas re-cycling, would that have the same effect you are looking at?
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2008 01:13 AM by benny.)
10-12-2008 12:40 AM
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mobilehydricity Offline
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Post: #3
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
benny Wrote:
mobilehydricity Wrote:HI all... I have been working on a new approach to O2 /Map problem. My approach is to control the H2 at the air intake and sample exhaust emission . ie introducing inert molecules with the H2 to change the amount of oxygen that can be sampled by the sensor. Check this out at http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity page link New EFIE MAP.
FEEDBACK ON THIS IDEA WOULD BE GREATY APPRECIATED!
MIKEY O GRUNYENCool[/font][/color]

If I understand your drawing, you appear to be mixing exhaust gases with the intake air. Isn't that what AGR/EGR already does on most modern cars?
Could you be re-inventing the wheel?

If you have a way of adjusting the AGR/EGR to automatically increase the amount of exhaust gas re-cycling, would that have the same effect you are looking at?

RIGHT OLD CHUM! But I would like to control the amount and also the amount of hydrogen being burnt at the same time... I remember in the early years of auto computers entering the market place , my friends and I used to write machine code ( MC680000) and produce performance chips, while the on board computer has evolved to control just about eveyrthing about engine performance, there are still ways to attack the cpu via addresable memory in the I/O and gates , an estimated 8k of total mem is available and is addresable in most cpu units.. Pretty labour intensive and not simple enough for the average JOE!.. Early performance chips did over write the overall gas , air mix and exhaust return paramenters, problem was, emissions ,of course ,where off the scale for on the road autos. Lab test have shown on this end. Ie , BUILT a table top combustion chamber and inject gas , hydrogen , mechinical controlled air flow with varing mixtures of sampled exhaust from the chamber , lopped into the input,
that the amount of free oxygen molecules that can be detected can be reduced in just about any value. This leads to the theory that the O2 sensor can be fooled in the same manner by virtue of how it senses
free oxygen molecules in the exhaust system. The AGR/ EGR , as you indicted.. automatically adjust the sampling ratio for a preset of parameters , therefore negating the problem of why there is more oxygen present too start with. Reducing the amount of hydrogen at the intake also changes , after burn , the amount of free oxy present, the addition of inert gases further changes the density of the exhaust mixture. Since the object would be to vary the computers lean/ rich ratio by more or less oxygen being present , this should work. Haven't tried this on a combustion engine yet , but I am working on a proto type pcb board that will allow me to change these paramters as block diagrammed . Hope to be done, by the end of next month and begin some real time testing of this concept. THANKS FOR YOU REPLY MIKE
10-14-2008 06:35 AM
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mobilehydricity Offline
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Post: #4
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
Well , been working towards some new concepts with the help of some the fellows from this forum. CHECK OUT !http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity..look under ELECTRONIC GIZMOS the last PAGE ..TITLED COMPUTER CONTROLLED HHO
Aslo started a forum there to accomodate any suggestions , anyone may have about this project. THANKS MIKE!
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2008 08:29 AM by mobilehydricity.)
11-24-2008 08:28 AM
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jjb2888 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
mobilehydricity Wrote:Well , been working towards some new concepts with the help of some the fellows from this forum. CHECK OUT !http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity..look under ELECTRONIC GIZMOS the last PAGE ..TITLED COMPUTER CONTROLLED HHO
Aslo started a forum there to accomodate any suggestions , anyone may have about this project. THANKS MIKE!
Archie Blue did this with his units. Air from the exhaust was introduced into is electrolyzer this help pressurized the units a little to help force the hho out. Plus it also allowed for a better burn.
11-28-2008 04:41 PM
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mobilehydricity Offline
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Post: #6
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
jjb2888 Wrote:
mobilehydricity Wrote:Well , been working towards some new concepts with the help of some the fellows from this forum. CHECK OUT !http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity..look under ELECTRONIC GIZMOS the last PAGE ..TITLED COMPUTER CONTROLLED HHO
Aslo started a forum there to accomodate any suggestions , anyone may have about this project. THANKS MIKE!
Archie Blue did this with his units. Air from the exhaust was introduced into is electrolyzer this help pressurized the units a little to help force the hho out. Plus it also allowed for a better burn.

COOL DEAL!
I have had some success with my cheap butt control valve for the HHO output. MORE ON THIS LATER.. GETTING READY TO POST SOME NEW STUFF ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE CHEAP BUTT, NO THRILLS, DIGITALLY CONTROLLED GIZMO,,, ALRADY CALLED ..THE ECU INTERCEPTOR..BE SURE TO STAY TUNED AT http://www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity LOK UNDER THE ELECTRONIC GIAZMOS PAGE FROM THE HOME PAGE ...LAST PARAGRAPH! TNX FOR THE INFO MIKE
11-29-2008 06:33 AM
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JET USA Offline
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Post: #7
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
To: "moblehydricity"
Just looked at the suggested o2 sensor tables. I don't understand how it is possible to generate a table of readings on an o2 sensor, because the range is so dynamicly changing at all speeds, It is impossible to give any readings at all. If you hook up a so called fuel ratio meter [ sold by "sun Pro"] [a snapon tools registered trade mark name] You will see what I mean. It connects to the O2 sensor signal wire to the ecu and to ground. It also has a positive 12v input to power the display.

see the additional parts needed page at my website http://www.waterworks4fuel.com/products.html
and click on suggested [additional parts needed].

I am still having problems with my ecu in the dodge 93 caravan.
the cel still comes on with the efie and hydroxy cell turned on in city traffic. can't seem to find the sweet spot for the efie. I am also using a pwm now to keep the current under control at about 10a after setup at about 25a to 30 a at full power. efie is very stable [eagle research rubber coated board]
am also using the "sun pro" fuel ratio meter display. mpg dropped when the hydro cell and efie are turned on.
The difference in power is noticable when on. [mpg drop was from 20mpg to 15 mpg]
any good suggestions are always appreciated. I see that you have working at this a little longer than I have, so maybe you can help here, I see you joined here in Oct 2008. i started experimenting with hydrogen cells in May of 2008. about the same time that I got the domain = http://waterworks4fuel.com
JT

ps: what other stuff can be done to fool with the computer to get the results desired?
I am not familiar with the other sensors, so if you reply , please be specific as to how to deal with it.
Thanks JT.

http://Jet-USA.com
"Those who say" " It cannot be done"
"should get out of the way of those who are doing it"[/size][/align]
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2008 10:01 PM by JET USA.)
12-04-2008 09:50 PM
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AlexR Offline
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Post: #8
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
JET USA Wrote:ps: what other stuff can be done to fool with the computer to get the results desired?
I am not familiar with the other sensors, so if you reply , please be specific as to how to deal with it.
Thanks JT.

JT,

You'll need to do a mod to your IAT sensor. Brown's Gas makes the fuel mixture in your combustion chamber burn FASTER. This is effectively advancing your timing. Most of the time an advanced timing is good, but not here. The problem is the quicker burn is pushing down on your piston before it reaches TDC, reducing power.


Just place a resistor in series with your IAT. I'd use a variable resistor first to get close to what you need. Some IATs show a higher temp with reduced resistance, some show a higher temp with decreased resistance. You'll have to figure out what you have.
If you tell your ECU the temp is too hot, you may have cold start issues on cold mornings, this goes away once the engine is warm. A bypass switch can help here.

EDIT - to clarify you want to fool your IAT output so the ECU is reading a hotter temp than there actually is. This will retard your timing.

Alex

Cool Flame, LLC
http://www.cool-flame.com
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2008 08:20 AM by AlexR.)
12-05-2008 03:50 AM
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mobilehydricity Offline
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Post: #9
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
AlexR Wrote:
JET USA Wrote:ps: what other stuff can be done to fool with the computer to get the results desired?
I am not familiar with the other sensors, so if you reply , please be specific as to how to deal with it.
Thanks JT.

JT,

You'll need to do a mod to your IAT sensor. Brown's Gas makes the fuel mixture in your combustion chamber burn FASTER. This is effectively advancing your timing. Most of the time an advanced timing is good, but not here. The problem is the quicker burn is pushing down on your piston before it reaches TDC, reducing power.

Just place a resistor in series with your IAT. I'd use a variable resistor first to get close to what you need. Some IATs show a higher temp with reduced resistance, some show a higher temp with decreased resistance. You'll have to figure out what you have.
If you tell your ECU the temp is too hot, you may have cold start issues on cold mornings, this goes away once the engine is warm. A bypass switch can help here.

Hi JT:
ALEX R is correct with his info. The table I am tring to generate is of course starting with the input and output from the O2 sensor at different speeds..0/25/50/75/100. under normal conditions there should be a constant that can be measured at those speeds. From the table, I can approximate averages , I can use this, to construct a program that causes, a independent variable power suppy, to send the ecu an analog voltage shift at varing levels. I suspect that there are points , due to accelation habits , that happen as spikes , ie you quickly speed up to 50 mph then step on the broke for a complete stop. these types of accelartion would , because the differnce created ,would probably be negligable. So as , I am looking to first develope a stable relationship ,or curve, of which , the , outboard processor could approximate , simulate , the output parm of the O2. In the end, the final program would also be looking at THE MAF and MAP and IAT parms and temp coeffients, to simulate normal operationing conditions while using an HHO generator. The final product will be menu driven , via your home computer or laptop so as you can manuelly change the output parms to fine tune the unit . I am doing this process by example ,one sensor at a time ,so as others can also be along on the learning curve . BUT FIRST I HAVE TO GNERATE A REAL TIME RELATIONAL TABLE OF EVENTS , ONE SENSOR RELATIOTSHIP AT A TIME TNX MIKE
PS: Three factors tend to stand out as predominate , unburned oxygen, timing( ADVANCE/RETARD) and air temp.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2008 07:18 AM by mobilehydricity.)
12-05-2008 07:14 AM
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mobilehydricity Offline
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Post: #10
RE: NEW APPROACH TO O2/MAP
JUST BACK FROM A LOG XMAS VACATION.. and started on the circuit cad for the micro processor controlled sensor regulator .. Should have done by the end of this month .. CHeck on my website as I will be posting some new info, soon to this effect. http;//www.freewebs.com/mobilehydricity
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2009 08:28 PM by mobilehydricity.)
02-01-2009 08:25 PM
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